25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 06:26 pm
@firefly,
You laugh at your own jokes ? Isnt that rather lonely ? You do know the sign was men laughing at themselves, dont you ? Women dont do that very well. They want to be taken seriously so their lives will be more important than a man's. Thats why women spank more boys for crying than girls. You cant have male dignity and die saving a female arse at the same time. Men are sacrificed so that women may live. What happened to equality ?
Quote:
Boy, you are such a big tough man
Ah Ha ! You want to be a man! Of course ! That explains a lot. Still no answer to my questions though. Is it your hope everyone will forget ?
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 06:30 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
men have nothing like that....they only have their lives sacrificed to save women and false imprisonment


Oh big boy, run, run, from the evil women who want to throw you into prison where you can be raped...
http://www.jrj-socrates.com/Cartoon%20Pics/Comics/Farside/Caveman_301.gif
Run, run, run...those women are gaining on you...
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 06:35 pm
@firefly,
Still no answer to my questions only a pathetic attempt at humuor....you didnt laugh at your joke that time.....how are we to know when you have made a joke unless you are the only one laughing ?
Quote:
Oh big boy, run, run, from the evil women who want to throw you into prison where you can be raped...
Oh big fat girl, run, run, pretend you are attractive enough to be raped or just lie about it and get someone thrown into prison. Keep posting horrific stories that make you all wet.
hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 06:38 pm
Any of you boys and girls seen the thread topic around here??
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 06:44 pm
@Ionus,
You're a joke--a pathetic, sick joke.




Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 06:47 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You're a joke--a pathetic, sick joke.
Oh the pain !!! I have been wounded ! Still no answer to my questions though...ignore the tough ones.....just post some more sick rape crimes for your personal enjoyment.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 07:08 pm
@Ionus,
I think I will post a current news story so that this thread can get back on topic.

Yes, rape is a horrible crime and the purpose of posting articles such as this is so we can get back to the harsh reality of facing that. Pity parties for the poor men victimized by the rape laws never seem to include the reasons why we have and need those laws.

This was a particularly brutal gang rape which may have involved as many as 20 people raping this teen over a two hour period. Others stood by watching, and no one called for help. The young woman was so badly injured she had to be airlifted to a hospital for treatment.

Does anyone really think this 16 year old consented to what was done to her?

Does anyone really think she "asked to get raped"?

All she did was attend her school dance....

Quote:
Richmond officer's harrowing saga of gang rape
Kevin Fagan, Chronicle Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 16, 2010

A Richmond police officer choked up in court Monday as he described what he called one of the worst experiences in his career - finding the 16-year-old victim of last year's gang rape at Richmond High School slung half-naked over a bench, bloodied and vomiting while her alleged attackers ran from the scene.

"She was wet and clammy," Officer Todd Kaiser testified, struggling with his words and clenching his jaw. "I thought she was dead. The only thing touching the ground were the tops of her feet and the side of her face.

"I went up and shook her and she moaned a little bit."

The seven men accused of raping the girl Oct. 24, 2009, as she left a campus homecoming dance sat impassively while the officer spoke. And that's how they remained throughout a daylong preliminary hearing at Contra Costa County Superior Court in Martinez, which will determine if they will be held for trial on rape and robbery charges.

Six of the defendants could be sentenced to life in prison. They are Cody Smith, 16, of San Pablo; Ari Morales, 17, of San Pablo; Manuel Ortega, 20, of Richmond; Jose Montano, 19, of Richmond; Marcelles Peter, 18, of Pinole; and John Crane Jr., 43, of Richmond.

The seventh defendant, 23-year-old Elvis Torrentes of Richmond, faces charges including aiding the act of rape that could land him in prison for 26 years.

Most of the two dozen relatives of the suspects who attended the hearing declined to comment, and the victim's family apparently was not in court. She is not expected to testify.

"People were just mentioning names to save their own skin, but Elvis was not one of the people who did this," said Torrentes' brother, Raul Torrentes. "He left before things got started.

"Right now we're leaving it to the hands of God. We expect justice."

The preliminary hearing before Judge Gregory Caskey is expected to last one to three weeks.

Kaiser, the first witness to testify as the hearing began Monday, said he had found condom wrappers and the victim's underwear flung to the pavement. He told the court that the victim's father had arrived while the girl was at the rape site, waiting to be taken by helicopter to John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek.

The father said he had been frantically calling his daughter for some time when he couldn't locate her after the dance, and that finally a male had picked up the phone, Kaiser testified.

"The male told him 'how good his daughter' performed sex acts," Kaiser said.

Kaiser's partner on the scene, Officer Gunnar Googins, testified that he had arrived a block from the school just after another officer caught Ortega running away.

"I went over to where (the other officer) and Ortega were, and he (Ortega) said, 'I just wanted to pimp her out,' " Googins testified. Ortega was drunk, he said.

Googins said he had asked Ortega "what he meant by 'pimping her out,' and he answered, 'Just go ahead and kill me.' He said it several times."

Ortega's attorney, Deputy Public Defender Jack Funk, tried to question Googins about how intoxicated the victim was, with the idea of addressing whether she had consented to sex. The judge stopped him from doing so.

An empty brandy bottle was found at the scene, the officers testified, and Googins' incident report indicated that she seemed intoxicated.

Witnesses told police that as many as 20 people had participated in the two-hour rape, but only the seven in court Monday have been arrested.

The hearing will resume today.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/11/16/BA9R1GCJRC.DTL&feed=rss.news

hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 07:14 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Ortega's attorney, Deputy Public Defender Jack Funk, tried to question Googins about how intoxicated the victim was, with the idea of addressing whether she had consented to sex. The judge stopped him from doing so.

What she consented to and what she did are two important parts of the truth....one would hope that the trial has as its goal to let the truth come out. Civilized people do not convict their fellow citizens to life terms based upon guesses and assumptions.

At this point we have an alleged rape, I object to journalists on their own and with no evidence making the assumption of rape and then further claiming rape as fact..
Intrepid
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 07:22 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

You're a joke--a pathetic, sick joke.







The best thing to do with crud is to ignore it. This troll deserves the best that we can offer. No, not down voting. Outright ignore. No contact. No response. No agony of having to read his infantile rantings. Peace at last.
NAACP
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 07:24 pm
@Intrepid,
Strange how his words can have such an affect on you......."peace at last", if you need silence from one individual to have peace, you'll never truly have it.(I know I'm getting a bit deep here but I couldn't resist!)
Intrepid
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 07:25 pm
@NAACP,
Ah, but you are wrong. It was only this pathetic individual that prevented my peace.

No, you are not getting deep. You are just looking for a reason to post. Wink
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 07:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
At this point we have an alleged rape


No, it was an actual rape.

For one thing, she was below the age of consent.

And no one in their right mind consents to be publicly sexually assaulted, on school property, by up to 20 males, while other people stand around cheering and taking photographs.

And no one consents to be so badly beaten they wind up in critical condition.

The police have labeled it a gang rape. The D.A. will be bringing rape charges.

I suspect the issues at trial will be more about which defendant did what to her.

Quote:
Civilized people do not convict their fellow citizens to life terms based upon guesses and assumptions.


I agree completely. The elements of the case must be proved in court.

Civilized people also do not do this sort of thing to another human being. Or stand around watching it being done without calling for help. Or cheer and take photos while watching it.


NAACP
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 07:39 pm
@Intrepid,
One individual "prevents" another individual from his peace by mere letters on a forum. Amusing to say the least.

Ah, yes. Such assumptions out of so little..........how ignorant we can be.....
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 07:40 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Civilized people also do not do this sort of thing to another human being
At this point we do not know that anything was done too her, she may well have had the experience that that she wanted. Group sex and even rough group sex are not uncommon with youth these days.

If the trial does not get to the bottom of what she wanted, what she consented to, and compare that to what happened then justice has not been served. If this was a case where sex that you do not approve of took place but where everyone involved consented then no crime should be said to have taken place. She was in my opinion old enough that stat-rape charges should not be applied, but perhaps on the 43 year old.

EDIT: I will be shocked however if justice does take place. I fully expect these guys to fry, for the truth to never come out, and for the rape feminist to do a group cheer in celebration of guys getting beat on for participating in sex that that the rape feminists do not approve of. The girl may or may not be a legitimate victim, but she will be made the victim no matter the facts.
NAACP
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 07:43 pm
Civilized Be-ings do not argue on a forum about something they will never change, especially not with words.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 09:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
Well, in addition to the fact she was below the age of consent (she was 15 at the time), her ability to consent is in question. This is what one of the defendants told a police officer..
Quote:
Officer Jeff Whitson testified later in the day that Ortega said the victim "was so drunk she didn't know what was going on. I wasn't the only one. There was hella people."
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_16629338?nclick_check=1


She was so drunk she didn't know what was going on.

You know many girls who would want to engage in consensual group sex on the grounds of a high school, with a large group standing around watching, while a school dance was going on in a nearby building? If people want to engage in group sex, isn't it more likely they would do it with people they know in a more private location?

"Rough sex" is not being beaten so badly you have to be airlifted to a hospital.

She was also robbed--her jewelry was stolen.

It's less a matter of being "sex you don't approve of" and more a matter of it stretching credulity to see this as a consensual sexual act.

Quote:
“She was raped, beaten, robbed and dehumanized by several suspects who were obviously OK enough with it to behave that way in each other’s presence,” Lt. Mark Gagan of the Richmond Police tells CNN. “What makes it even more disturbing is the presence of others. People came by, saw what was happening and failed to report it.”

“Based on witness statements and suspect statements, and also physical evidence, we know that she was raped by at least four suspects committing multiple sex acts,” Gagan said. “As people announced over time that this was going on, more people came to see, and some actually participated,” he added.
http://www.popcrunch.com/richmond-high-school-gang-rape/


Quote:
I will be shocked however if justice does take place. I fully expect these guys to fry, for the truth to never come out, and for the rape feminist to do a group cheer in celebration of guys getting beat on for participating in sex that that the rape feminists do not approve of


What makes you think the truth won't come out? That's the point of having a trial. The males will all have lawyers who will cross examine witnesses. And jurors generally take their task very seriously.

You're into such rape denial that you can't even entertain the idea that this girl was raped.

I expect that some of these young men may take plea deals. These are very serious charges that carry heavy duty prison time.

It will be interesting to continue to follow this case...these are just the preliminary hearings.





hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 09:32 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Officer Jeff Whitson testified later in the day that Ortega said the victim "was so drunk she didn't know what was going on.
Ortega himself was very drunk, how drunk the victim was we dont know, but the medical staff could have very easily found out, and probably did. The court will never hear the number though, I predict.

Quote:
"Rough sex" is not being beaten so badly you have to be airlifted to a hospital.
Her need to be airlifted has never been documented, neither has the medical need for 5 days in the hospital. In all likelihood the hospital was used to quarantine her for non-medical reasons, something that the court could find out but I predict will not. Further, the claim that she was bloodied turns out the nothing but some undefined magnitude back scratches, which is common in consensual rough sex. We are already aware of the emotional over investment into an assumed set of facts by a first responder (Kaiser), which is a serious failure of professionalism and duty to justice, I see no reason to doubt but that others similarly failed to appropriately carry out their duties and thus treated this girl in an inappropriate way. The biased rant by a so-called journalist claiming an as of yet untested set of facts that paint this girl as a victim is another example of dereliction of professionalism in this case.

Quote:
What makes you think the truth won't come out?
I have no faith in what is euphemistically called the criminal justice system to seek justice, I think that in this case as well as many others when a sex crime is alleged against women that what is wanted is vengeance, and that we are willing to subvert justice to get it.

Quote:
She was also robbed--her jewelry was stolen.

Put your purse down for two hours in a crowded area without watching it and go say feed the birds in the park, then let me know if you find your purse intact. I am betting that you will not....the theft does not prove sexual assault.
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 09:34 pm
@Intrepid,
So the best plan you can come up with is to ignore differing opinions.....you are on the net to be worshipped for your opinion, not suffer any differing opinions. I bet you are getting old and set in your ways.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 09:36 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:
It was only this pathetic individual that prevented my peace.
Differing opinions are such a hassle arent they ? They take away from your self proclaimed righteousness.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 10:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I have no faith in what is euphemistically called the criminal justice system to seek justice, I think that in this case as well as many others when a sex crime is alleged against women that what is wanted is vengeance, and that we are willing to subvert justice to get


Then why isn't the conviction rate higher on rape crimes that go to trial?

So, all jurors want to "subvert justice" too? Does that include jurors that exonerate those charged with rape, or only the ones who find them guilty?

Among other injuries, the girl had a facial fracture. More than one police officer was fighting back tears on the witness stand when describing the physical condition they found the girl in at the scene. I don't think it was just a case of some "scratches".
Quote:
common in consensual rough sex

Your involvement in BDSM has apparently colored your view of what might be common outside of those circles.

I am sure every last detail will come out at trial. No one has any reason to conceal anything. Both the defense and the prosecution have a vested interest in getting all the information they can. These are just hearings.
 

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