Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

Hawkeye, you said...



So, how did anyone find out what these people were doing in the privacy of their bedrooms? How did the police learn of it?

Do you now think the government is videotaping your "intimate" moments?

The government has a right to intervene if people are getting physically harmed or seriously injured--even in consensual situations. They certainly intervene if someone gets killed.

I worked with someone who was arrested for killing someone. He claimed it was consensual sex and they were using asphyxiation, strangulation, to heighten sexual arousal. Well, it may have been consensual, and it may have been arousing, but he still had a dead man in his apartment and they arrested him for murder.

If you want to engage in BDSM fine, but that sort of activity is not the norm. BDSM is also consensual, and consensual sex is not the topic of this thread. I don't really care what people do regarding consensual sexual activity. As long as it's consensual, people are free to explore and enjoy the erotic. And most people are not complaining about the government curbing their consenting sexual pleasures.

But the topic of this thread is not consenting sexual activity.

Rape is non consensual. No one should be subjected to non consensual sex, and that is the purpose of the rape laws.



You're full of crap. You are crusading for your own particular sexual interests. Once your interests and actions infringe on the rights of others, you have no right to continue such behavior. Other people have the right not to be violated by you. As long as your sexual activities involve another person, that person has the right to define limits. And the sexual assault/rape laws protect that person's right to do so. That's why we need those laws.

You are are far from being sexually liberated. Any man who talks about "loose women" or females in "slut clothing" is a downright prude. With all your talk that "that sex can be the the highest level of expression and fulfillment of the soul" you seem to think there is something shameful or dirty about a female who enjoys and seeks sexual relationships, and who is proud of attributes and not afraid to display her erotic nature.

Your obvious hypocrisy and double standards reveals your immaturity about sexuality. Sure, your sexual games and techniques might be adventurous, but your attitudes are quite Victorian.

You act as though you are the only one who understands and enjoys sexuality. Well, you don't seem to know much about the women who already enjoy sexual experiences without shame or guilt--the ones you call "loose women". They don't need you to "awaken" them, and they don't need to be put down by you for seeking their own sexual fulfillment in a very independent way.

And women who fully enjoy and relish consensual sex have every right to draw the line at non consensual sex. They have every right to insist that rape laws be enforced. They have every right to tell you that your sexual gratification, and your needs for dominance and power, cannot be achieved at their expense, and without their consent. When raped, they have the right to cry, "Rape".

in the case that set me off it was the neighbor, 911 was called, the police came, because of a policy that someone needs to be arrested when the police suspect abuse even if the alleged victim denies it they arrested the guy, because of a policy that all cases with enough evidence to convince a judge must go to the judge the case was prosecuted by the DA. Once the call was made everything that followed was on remote control. The fact that neither person claimed abuse, in fact vigorously denied abuse all the way though the precess, did not prevent this guy from getting convicted of a sex crime. It was decided that he coerced his wife into a master/slave relationship, that the consent given by the woman was invalid. This guy was made into a rapist when that state after the fact removed her right to consent, when the state decided that she was too much of an invalid to know her own mind and will.

To be clear..at this time and in this jurisdiction is was only for sex crimes and domestic violence for which the DA was instructed that there was no prosecutorial discretion. His hands were tied, even if he believed that prosecuting this guy was a miscarriage of justice he had to do it, because of policies put in place at the behest of the rape feminists to address what they consider to be historically overly lacks pursuit of those who conduct what they call sexual violence. It would not surprise me if the judge was also working from a list of mandatory minimum sentences, though I dont remember if this was the case.

We have put in an express lane to jail and life on a convicts list for those who are charged with particular crimes. Justice has been subverted by militant feminist cultural reformers. I for one am offended, and demand a change of course.

Most people Hawkeye do not have a clue how crazy this is becoming until it affect themselves or someone they care about and that is the main problem.

Most of us assume that the laws on sexual crimes are still sane and are very surprise when they find out otherwise.

The news outlets are not going to tell us what is going on either and they are cheerfully repeating feminists nonsense on how common both sexual assaults and domestic violence happen to be.

Right, which is why Firefly's argument that I am weird for caring when so few others do, probably I must be a sex crime perp since I do, is not persuasive. I have said from day one that I am not a member of the herd, that conventional wisdom means nothing to me. I go by facts and evidence as best I can, and I fight for what is right.

Firefly condemns me for doing what feminists 40 years ago were doing, for being in exactly the same position they were in. She makes it very clear that in her mind men and women are not equal, for the very same behaviour that she praises women for she condemns men for doing.

Hawkeye I still think that she is as anti-women as she is anti-men as look at how her protections of women will strip them as their rights as adults.

Yes, but she is fully driven by fantasy...in her mind she is fighting for women. I hate to think what will happen to her if she gets to see women pointedly reject her agenda, the breaking of delusions tend to be traumatic. This is going to be the outcome if she and her pals persist in trying to drive their agenda, because women are not stupid, women will see clearly that the rape feminist agenda is not in their best interest.

Bill? Is that you?

If those men have sex with those women, then it is the men who are in the higher percentile of mental health!

Most women beside the question of what is in their best interests have sons, brothers, uncles and male friends who welfare they deeply care about.

No mother or sister is going to be happy when the crazy sexual assault laws allow some immature female to charge rape due to a case of regret sex against their son or brother for example.

more importantly the rape feminists are trying to hand to women control of their relationships, enforced by sex law since men generally care more about sex than women and are more interested in the power aspects of sex than are women thus controlling what men want and holding over them the threat of turning them into the state for punishment gives enormous power to women. However, the rape feminists never factored in that by and large women do not want to have completely control over their men, women take over control of the relationship and their men in most cases only because the men refuse to step up, but rarely are women all that thrilled with this outcome. The rape feminists are trying to give women something that they mostly do not want.

This does not end well.

Well, who decided that he coerced his wife into a master/slave relationship? A group of phantom "rape feminists" or an actual judge or jury?

Someone coerced into a slave position in a long term relationship might, indeed, no longer have a sense of her own will.

Isn't coercion an element of rape?

Are master/slave relationships your idea of healthy mature sexual relationships between men and women?

Face it, most people are not worried about getting convicted on charges like that.

Carrying on about the rape laws because some BDSM practices violate those laws isn't likely to win you much support outside of BDSM circles.

If we criminalise women will you approve or is it only men you hate ?

If you have invented some way of telling mental health by how a person looks I would like to hear it.

On the contrary, I think that the recent tea party movement shows that Americans are in no mood to tolerate a government that has decided that it knows better than the citizens how the citizens should live, and that when the government goes so far as to deprive these same citizens of our liberty when we refuse to comply with the dictates from on high that it is time to take a hatchet to government. Government is no longer us, it is our oppressor, and it will be made to comply with the constitution, by force if need be.

The rape feminists along with the gay rights pressure groups decided that the way to press their will upon the majority was to hijack the mechanisms of government, however this only works if the majority consents, because the government can at any time be made to comply with the will of the governed. There will be no replay of Tiananmen Square here. I do not believe that the majority will let stand to taking of our rights and freedoms under the excuse that this is required to protect victimized women, because I dont think that Americans will stand for our liberty being taken from us for any reason, and the claimed reason is bogus to begin with.....there is no rape crisis in America, women are no more brutalized by men then men are brutalized by women. Our methods of pressuring the other sex are not the same, one is more physical cruel the other more emotionally cruel, but the level of shadow in men and women are equal. Women have no basis to play the victim card, and the days where they could use guilt for previous wrongs as a free pass to imposs their will upon men are over.

Hawkeye is it not strange that Firefly cannot understand that everyone is a stakeholder in keeping the government and the feminists out of the bedrooms of consenting adults?

It is even a more strange position for Firefly to take given it was not that long ago that the government was claiming the right and duty to interfere in homosexual couples sexual relationships.

Firefly must have been very poorly educated. She seems to never have learned that as Americans we are only as free as the least free amongst us, that if the government is allowed to take away the rights of a single citizen it will certainly with-in a short amount of time take away the rights of many. That is why we have a Constitution and Laws and why we demand that justice be done, so that there are proper procedures in place to make sure that the government does not usurp its authority. Corrupting the criminal justice system as we have done to enable more beating on men in the effort to empower women carries with it huge costs on the downside. Rape feminists have temporarily gained power for women but they have in the process deligitimized the justice system and the government at large . They have also corrupted the mental health system as they have used it to effectively make sentences for sex criminals life long even though the criminal system has released them making us no better than the Soviets when it comes to abuse of the mental health system, though this is a less serious problem. I think we know that with these people nothing is more important than their agenda of powering over men, and criminalizing sex in the effort to keep sexual practices in a tidy box....limited and controlled by women. They are willing to burn down everything that America once stood for if required to get their way. They are spoiled, entitled, idiotic brats, and they must be stopped.

Good grief, are you a hysteric! Is it that time of the month, Hawkeye?

We are talking about non consensual sex acts--the crime of rape. We are not discussing women taking over relationships, or controlling men, or any other problems you might be having in your marriage.

You are the one trying to create a "rape crisis". You see the sky as falling simply because a woman has the right to say, "No" to some creepy date who is grabbing at her and trying to force her to do something she doesn't want to do. The power the rape laws give to both males and females is the right to refuse unwanted sexual contact. They help to protect people from non consensual sexual assaults. The same way that robbery laws help to prevent people from taking your property without your consent.

Yes, rape laws give potential victims of sexual assault power--it gives them power to prevent being assaulted and raped. And, if these sexual assaults and rapes occur despite the deterrent effects of the laws, it gives the state the power to hold the rapist accountable, and judges and juries the power to send him to prison. That's a rather good system for dealing with the situation when one person violates the body of another person.

Your fevered imagination somehow translates this into a takeover of all relationships by women. Something women not only do not want, but have never expressed a desire to do. Women want power in society--the political power due to them as taxpayers and citizens--but most women see their intimate relationships with men, particularly their long term relationships with men, as partnerships--equal partnerships.

So try to view the issue of the sexual assault/rape laws with some perspective. We are talking about non consensual sex.

Women are not running in droves to accuse men of rape. There is no vast conspiracy to use the rape laws to throw innocent men into prison.

In the last 30 and 40 years women have experienced a significantly greater degree of sexual freedom--freedom to explore and enjoy their own erotic sexual appetites. They can indulge in casual sex if they want to, and as often as they want to, with as many partners as they want to. That's not only been a great thing for women, its been a great thing for men, particularly single men. Single men have considerably more sexually active, consenting females available to them then men did 40 and 50 years ago. But the price women have paid for this greater freedom is greater vulnerability to sexual assault precisely because they are more "available". Sex, whether wanted by the woman or not, has become expected by many young men. They expect women to "put out". They see women, even very drunk women, as there for the taking. It was in order to protect sexual freedom that date rape laws came into being. People, particularly in casual encounters, have to be able to draw a line about what they don't want to do. To have the freedom to engage in more sexual activity, women, in particular, needed greater protection from the law than they had before, and the date rape laws gave that to them. It gave the woman the ability to just say, "No" and have that backed up by the force of law.

So I think the date rape laws, which seem to be the basis of most of your objections, have really been a good thing for both men and women. They provide some deterrent to sexual assault and that allows women the continued freedom to engage in more sexually active lifestyles. And that helps to provide men with a greater number of potential willing, consenting sex partners. It's really a win-win situation.

If you really want to go back to the rape laws of 40 or 50 years ago, you'd also have to go back to a time when women were expected to be virgins before marriage, and maybe, just maybe they'd have sex with a guy they were engaged to. Women routinely said, "No" to the idea of intercourse--although they'd fool around and do everything but "it"--and men routinely took "No" for an answer without it being a big deal. The social conditioning and sexual mores were quite different than they are now. Women held out on sex because they used it to get a man to marry them. Mothers told their daughters things like, "He won't buy the cow if he can get the milk for free". And the sexual pleasures for single men were nowhere as bountiful as they are today.

So all this nonsense about the date rape laws making things harder on men today is just that--nonsense. These laws were needed to keep pace with the changes in sexual behavior that have taken place in the last several decades. And these changes in sexual activity, particularly on the part of women, have definitely benefited men. And, for women to continue to enjoy their sexual freedom, including the freedom for more casual sex, they need the protection of those date rape laws, they need the legal power of, "No means no" to protect them from unwanted sexual assaults.

You have it all wrong, Hawkeye. These laws don't take sexual freedom from a woman, they help to protect her so she can enjoy her sexual freedom. And that benefits men because that's who she's enjoying it with.

You mean the power to say yes and afterward the power to withdraw that yes and turn consensus sex acts into a rape if the woman regrets granting permission after the fact.

Such craziness as the power to jump into a sleeping man bed and begin sexual activity with him and then the next day after regretting the loss of virginal in that manner on her 18 birthday charge the man with rape!

Or the power to grant permission and after the intercourse is underway withdraw that permission in the middle of the act and if it take more then seven seconds for the man to withdraw then have a court declare him a rapist.

there is that, but of greater concern is the government removing the right to consent to sex from the citizens, especially after the fact with no clear guidance before the fact as if the intent is to be deliberately vague. Also of great concern is that we are making men criminals based upon little more than women's claims about her feelings and perceived threats real or not, which is absolutely unjustified and unfair to men.

We see on multiple rape feminist sites something to the effect "if you are in doubt about the legality of the sex then certainly dont do it" as if this is an answer to men who want to know what is allowed and what is not. It is pure bullshit, it is clearly a calculated attempt to keep men guessing so that they will error on the side of caution so as to stay out of jail... as a way to keep sex sedate with a built in deniability when guys like me come claiming that sex is overly criminalized. This is abuse of the citizens, no doubt about it.