25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 12:22 pm
@BillRM,
You are making up your own definition of "rape". In Florida, where you live, this is the law pertaining to sexual assault/sexual battery which would cover the act of "rape" as rape is described by other states that use that term.
Quote:

Legal Definition of Sexual Assault
in Florida

In the state of Florida, sexual assault is legally
referred to as sexual battery. Florida State
Statute 794.011 defines sexual battery as:
“Any oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by,
or union with, the sexual organ of another or
the anal or vaginal penetration of another
by any other object” performed without
consent and not for a bona fide medical
purpose.


Consent is defined as:
“intelligent and knowing permission.”

Consent is NOT:
~ failure to physically resist
~ forced or coerced submission
~ temporary inability to make
decisions due to intoxication or
drug use
~ being unconscious, asleep, or
physically unable to communicate
non-consent
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:yoDnaP3Kp38J:www.police.ufl.edu/pdf_files/Comprehensive%2520Sexual%2520Assault%2520Brochure%252007.pdf+state+of+Florida+definition+of+sexual+assault&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgYLppQK7ogE4qNw2jUKZkW_ERtKnVmEV1JrtadpDeQQXzo8Z-lOFW8f2RLBRYsxboia5-Knu5vm-biQsX5cYotSCgAUXrxibmCLhmiBe1JKRrLKT78y5nY6XSpxDhDXyJGAgmc&sig=AHIEtbQuebfosDYBaE4fZGgvYbZt1TXt5Q


Sexual intercourse without consent is sexual battery--i.e. "rape". It is the lack of consent that is crucial, not the degree of force that is used.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 12:34 pm
@firefly,
The reason I made the comment about no one got justice in that case was because if he did it, there is no justice for the victim and if he did not do it, there is no justice for him. As it stands now, it is pointing to his guilt.
hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 12:37 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
It is the lack of consent that is crucial, not the degree of force that is used.
that is a bullshit statement considering that anything resembling force, up to and including begging and the asking person having POTENTIAL power over the subject of the request , is considered grounds for the state to determine that no valid consent was given......that a rape took place.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 12:38 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
In the state of Florida, sexual assault is legally
referred to as sexual battery. Florida State
Statute 794.011 defines sexual battery as:
“Any oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by,
or union with, the sexual organ of another or
the anal or vaginal penetration of another
by any other object” performed without
consent and not for a bona fide medical
purpose.

Quote:
Consent is defined as:
“intelligent and knowing permission.”

Consent is NOT:
~ failure to physically resist
~ forced or coerced submission
~ temporary inability to make
decisions due to intoxication or
drug use
~ being unconscious, asleep, or
physically unable to communicate
non-consent


So?

The level of intoxication call for by case law is severe and not just the level where a woman or man judgment is impair to some degree. IE if I had not been feeling loose I would never had gone to bed with that man or woman does not cut it to turn a willing sexual encounter into a rape.

Only when a person judgment had been impair by drugging behind their backs is the standard of his or her condition needing to be shown to be severely degrade wave before you can turn a willing sexual encounter into rape.

Please take note if the law was otherwise then both parties to a drinking sexual encounter would then be equally guilty of sexual assaults.

We would end up with one hell of a lot of couples being lock-up in your insane world.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 12:39 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
As it stands now, it is pointing to his guilt.
you have forgotten that in America even men are innocent until proven guilty.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 01:01 pm
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/local/article_af0bf42e-2b0c-11df-ab75-001cc4c002e0.html


Judge rules intoxication does not mean woman was “unaware” in sexual assault case
Story [email protected] | Posted: Monday, March 8, 2010 5:36 pm

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Related: Bismarck judge overturns rape conviction
Intoxicated people can consent to sex, even though they might not remember it or might regret it later, a district court judge has ruled.

A 12-person jury convicted Mitchell Gross, 49, of gross sexual imposition in mid-February after an hour and a half of deliberations and a three-day trial. He had been accused of engaging in a sexual act in November 2008 with a 21-year-old woman knowing she “was unaware that a sexual act was being committed.” While Gross did not deny he engaged in a sexual act with the woman, he contended the act was consensual and her idea.

“(Prosecutors) were saying she was so drunk that she was unaware and that he should have known that,” Tatum Lindbo, Gross’ defense attorney, explained.

South Central District Judge Sonna Anderson dismissed the case in a 23-page order last week, ruling there was no evidence the alleged victim in the case was unaware of a sexual act taking place. She dismissed the case in response to motions Lindbo made during the trial.

Defense attorneys typically make Rule 29 motions when prosecutors finish presenting their cases and renew the motions when all evidence has been presented. The motions ask judges to find that prosecutors have not presented evidence to sustain convictions. Judges can rule on the motion immediately or reserve judgment until a later time, as Anderson did in the Gross case.

While the acquittal stands for the moment, Burleigh County Assistant State’s Attorney Cynthia Feland said she has filed a notice of intent to file a motion to vacate the order. She plans to review the trial transcript and try to prove her case again to Anderson. If Anderson does not vacate her order, Feland may request a supervisory writ from the Supreme Court, in which the high court is asked to step in and overrule a judge.

If Anderson does not vacate the order and the Supreme Court will not step in, the case will be over, as prosecutors cannot appeal an acquittal.

Feland believes the judge overstepped her bounds in acquitting Gross, because the jurors were in the position to determine who was telling the truth in the case.

“Basically, the court’s order stepped into the jury’s province of being the finder of fact,” she said. “In a jury trial, the judge is the ultimate trier of the law, but the jury is the ultimate trier of fact.”

According to background information provided in Anderson’s order, the 21-year-old woman was at several bars on Nov. 26 and became intoxicated, witnesses said. The people driving her home didn’t know where she lived and ended up leaving her at a home that looked like hers in her neighborhood.

The order said the woman wandered into one home, then across the street to another, which was Gross’ home. Gross and others were drinking at his home and allowed the woman to sleep there. She left, then returned later to the home. Gross told police he had at least 10 beers that night.

Gross did not testify at his February trial, but he told police in an interview that he and the woman talked for awhile, then she asked if he wanted to have sex with her. They had sexual contact with each other, and he reported she “responded to him in a manner consistent with consensual sex.”

The woman woke up in the home on the morning of Nov. 27 without memory of what had happened. Later, she became convinced she had been sexually assaulted, Anderson’s order said. After reporting the matter to police, she was able to pick Gross out of a line up.

Though prosecutors proved the woman was drunk at the time of the sexual encounter, they did not prove that she was unaware of what was going on and offered no evidence to dispute Gross’ version of events, Anderson wrote. The woman’s level of intoxication also does not prove she was unaware, she wrote.

However, it is not a crime in North Dakota for intoxicated persons to have consensual sexual encounters,” the judge wrote in the order. “Persons who are of legal age to consent to sexual relations and are not otherwise mentally infirm still have the ability to consent to sexual encounters, even though one or both may be intoxicated, even extremely intoxicated, may not recall the events clearly, and may come to regret their decision to have sex.”Anderson also pointed out that the woman’s ability to pick Gross from a lineup showed she was not unconscious, asleep or completely unaware during the sexual act. That she does not remember the act later does not prove she was unaware at the time, the judge determined.

Even if prosecutors had proven the woman was unaware, they presented no evidence that Gross should have known she was unaware, Anderson wrote. Gross also was intoxicated, and witness statements show the woman was functioning, though intoxicated. While a sober person may have realized it was not wise to have sex with the woman, “an intoxicated person may not have that level of clear thinking,” Anderson wrote.

Though no similar case was found in North Dakota, Anderson found similar cases in Ohio and in the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, and in both cases, the evidence was deemed insufficient to sustain convictions.

Lindbo said she was pleased with the judge’s decision. The state argued that the woman was “too drunk” to consent, but the law says the person has to be “unaware” for the charge to stick, she said.

“That’s not the legal standard,” she said about the contention the woman was too drunk to consent.

Feland believes evidence was presented that the woman was too drunk to have been aware of what was going on and that Gross was not too intoxicated to see that. Gross’ son testified at trial that he and his father had to help the woman into their house due to her level of intoxication and that the woman could not or did not talk to anyone, she said. Gross told police he had to take the woman’s pants, because she had urinated in them.

“For all practical purposes, she was practically catatonic” according to witnesses, Feland said.

Domestic violence and sexual assault advocacy groups issued releases following the ruling, saying it showed North Dakota is in need of stronger statutes dealing with drug- and alcohol-related sexual assaults.

Feland said she did not think the current law was a problem in the case and feels the law is more problematic in cases where the alleged victim’s intoxication level is not as clear.

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Posted in Local on Monday, March 8, 2010 5:36 pm Updated: 5:45 pm. | Tags: Mitchell Gross, Gross Sexual Imposition, Sonna Anderson

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firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 01:05 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Only when a person judgment had been impair by drugging behind their backs is the standard of his or her condition needing to be shown to be severely degrade wave before you can turn a willing sexual encounter into rape.


Are you a complete idiot?

Read your own state law.

Sex without consent is sexual battery--i.e. rape.

Consent is defined as:
“intelligent and knowing permission.”

If someone cannot give "intelligent and knowing permission" they cannot consent. That includes someone in a very intoxicated state.

And, when that person sobers up, they may be aware that they have been raped--that they did not consent.

If you want to risk a rape charge, go right ahead and have sex with very intoxicated women. But don't whine about getting caught if you are charged with rape.

Men are free to report sexual assaults under this law, it is not gender specific.





firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 01:11 pm
@Arella Mae,
He was guilty of statutory rape, Arella Mae. She was only 14.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 01:16 pm
Rapists now take photos of their crimes. In this case, where the rapes occurred over several months, all while the woman was sleeping, the photos helped to nail him.
Quote:
12 November 2010
Heywood mobile phone photo rapist jailed

A man who took pictures of himself raping a woman as she slept has been jailed for eight-and-a-half years.

David Holt, of Heywood in Greater Manchester, used his mobile phone to catalogue the sexual abuse while the woman was in a deep sleep, police said.

He was caught when the photos were found on his phone and passed to the police.

The 53-year-old pleaded guilty to four counts of rape at an earlier hearing at Bolton Crown Court.

Det Con Ben Harris, of Greater Manchester Police, said the victim had been left "extremely distressed".

"I know she found it difficult to come forward," he added.

"As far as Holt in concerned, he probably thought he had got away with his offending.

"He continued his life, thinking he would go unpunished, while all along his victim was suffering."

Holt, of Whalley Road, was also ordered to sign the Sex Offenders Register for life.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-11746284
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 01:56 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
If you want to risk a rape charge, go right ahead and have sex with very intoxicated women. But don't whine about getting caught if you are charged with rape.


So then when a woman have sex with an intoxicated man she is also risking a sexual assault charges in your opinion and if not way not? Drunk

Second note I am not planning on stopping have sex with my wife after we had gone out drinking.

Third note you are no lawyer..........

You really wish to set up a crazy world.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:05 pm
There was afemale professor in Michigan several years ago that was teaching her students that all sex, married, consensual, all of it, was rape if it involved a man penetrating a woman.

It is getting to the point that a man had better get written permission with a notarized signature from a woman before they have sex.

While we all agree that rapists deserve to be put away, and that women dont "ask" to get raped, the rape laws and sexual assault laws have gotten to the point of being ridiculous.

It seems a man can be charged with sexual assault if he even looks at a woman and she doesnt like it.

firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:13 pm
@mysteryman,
What do you find ridiculous about the sexual assault/rape laws of the state in which you live?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:30 pm
This sounds like it should be a very good episode--it airs next week.
Quote:

The Women of 'Law & Order: SVU' Speak Out
by Mariska Hargitay
Nov 11th 2010

[Editor's note: 'Law & Order: SVU' has never been a show to shy away from touchy subjects. In the Nov. 17 episode, 'Gray,' Detectives Detectives Benson (Mariska Hargitay) and Stabler (Christopher Meloni) meet a young woman who claims to have been the victim of date rape by her classmate. The case becomes muddled when its revealed that the two had been drinking and partying the night of the alleged rape.

The women of 'Law & Order: SVU' -- Mariska Hargitay, Christine Lahti (ADA Sonya Paxton) and Allison Siko (Kathleen Stabler) -- spoke out about rape, the staggering statistics and what needs to be done about these crimes. Without further ado, Mariska Hargitay ...]


This episode is one that is very close to my heart. Given that rape is the most common violent crime on campuses, it is likely that someone you know and love was a victim of sexual violence during college. Its true for me -- people I care deeply about were raped in college. So many of the letters I receive from fans are from women who were raped in college. In fact, we know that one out of four female students will be sexually assaulted before she graduates.

This episode captures the prevalence of sexual assault on college campuses, and highlights the obstacles for survivors who wish to find justice and healing. Most campus sexual assaults occur between individuals who know one another, and often involve alcohol. This can make investigations into the crime difficult, and this episode presents arguments about how to determine whether an individual who is drunk is able to consent to sex.

The bottom line is that when a victim severely impaired by alcohol, there is no ability to consent to sex.

Campus rape is so prevalent in part because it is so easy for the perpetrators to get away with it. Many campus sexual assaults are resolved through college disciplinary systems, and they are often an inadequate and dissatisfactory alternative to the criminal justice system that provide neither justice nor healing for the survivor.

We can do more to address and reduce campus rape, and college leaders can do their part by shining light into the darkness of sexual violence on their campuses. That makes this episode so important, and is why it will resonate with so many people.
http://www.tvsquad.com/2010/11/11/the-women-of-law-and-order-svu-speak-out/
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:36 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
This sounds like it should be a very good episode--it airs next week.
What we have here is a hollywood actor with a cause...how unusual! *sarcasm*

Does anyone care anymore? It is not like the people of Hollywood are respected by mainstream America.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:39 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
He was guilty of statutory rape
He should not have been guilty of any crime...goes to show how fucked up sex law is, and we are not for want of other examples of this either.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:47 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

Judge rules intoxication does not mean woman was “unaware” in sexual assault case
Does anyone know if SCOTUS has ruled on this new sex law that criminalizes drunken sex? Not that I hold out much hope that SCOTUS would validate personal freedom when confronted with the states desire for control, but there is always a chance that they would.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:52 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
This sounds like it should be a very good episode--it airs next week.


Sound like the normal lies and misinformation and if any one question that statement just go to any college website and see the total numbers of sexual assaults reported every year.

Most common crime on college campuses my rear end.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 02:59 pm
@firefly,
David wrote:
A point of information, as to your reasoning, if I may, Firefly:
a former client of mine inherited an estate, an inventory of whose furnishings included pictures of nude children.
I 'm wondering how this applies to your reasoning of "support" or of "contribution" to "abuse and exploitation of children" ?
firefly wrote:
All nude photos of children found in people's homes are not pornography. If someone inherited child pornography, and they found the material distasteful, I would expect that they would destroy and/or properly dispose of it. If they found the material sexually arousing, and continued to view it for purposes of sexual arousal, I would think that they were violating the privacy of the children depicted and becoming another link in the chain of the sexual exploitation of those children.
Is it your reasoning that if the family that inherited this property SAW those materials,
then the depicted children woud be harmed,
but if thay closed their eyes in disposing of them, then harm woud be avoided ?

Will u identify the harm to the children (out of curiosity?)





David
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 03:21 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
David I been doing my very best to get a hold of the Florida standard jury instructions in a case where intoxication/consent of the "victim" is an issue in a sexual assault case without luck.

I would be grateful if you happen to have ready access to a legal database with that information if you could post it here.

Short of going to the University of Miami law library I had ran out of ideas of how I could gain this information other then to ask for your possible help.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 03:30 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
David I been doing my very best to get a hold of the Florida standard jury instructions in a case where intoxication/consent of the "victim" is an issue in a sexual assault case without luck.

I would be grateful if you happen to have ready access to a legal database with that information if you could post it here.

Short of going to the University of Miami law library I had ran out of ideas of how I could gain this information other then to ask for your possible help.
I have never been admitted to practice in Florida,
and I retired from the practice of law in NY before use of computers
became pervasive in the profession.

When I was in practice, I did trial work in court.
I had other lawyers to research in support, back at the office.

I 'm sorry not to be of more help.





David
 

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