25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 09:56 am
@firefly,
Quote:
The "women's movement" neither wrote the rape laws nor passed them into law
You are aware of the pressure they put on politicians, though, arent you ?
Quote:
Tell that to the men whose daughters, or mothers, or sisters, or wives, have been raped, and you'll find that men very much want rapists punished for their actions.
You have changed the subject. We were talking about false accusations.

Quote:
In the particular case in question, there was a rape committed--a statutory rape--the girl was only 14 years old. There was a crime. The case should not have been dropped, it could have gone forward, even without the victim being alive, because both she and the male had admitted that the sex occurred. There was no reason for the case to have been dismissed. The male is guilty of statutory rape--he admitted it. The D,A, might not have wanted to pursue a charge of forcible rape without a living victim, but the statutory rape charge should not have been dismissed.
Does it really require the same word as a violent sexual assault by a stranger ?
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:12 am
@firefly,
Can we deal with what I consider the main areas if I itemise them ? Your reply left me feeling like I was reading a libbies handout.
- chasing the viewers is similar to chasing drug users. The real problem is the producers. Take out one producer and you stop many viewings.
- viewing a crime can not be equated with committing a crime. To say we have made it a crime therefore it is a crime is a circular argument.
- with limited resources, do we want to terrorise men (well supported choice by the libbies) or do we want to protect children ? We cant do both. Do we track users or producers ?
- there is a connection between viewing child porn and rape of minors. But to lock someone up for the suspicion that they might commit a crime one day based on staistical evidence is crazy. Why dont we lock up all young black men living in poverty ? The connection is far greater.
- why do they go after drug producers and not users ? Surely the same applies to this ?
- I suspect the major push behind all this is horror. How many lives have been damaged by the creation of this crime rather than catch the real criminals ? Wouldnt it be better to look up the producers than say a ten to one ratio for the users ? Or is the idea to put men behind bars and stuff the kids - they are only a means to a libbie end.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:22 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Child pornography is not in the same category as adult pornography. There is no justification for the toleration of child pornography at any level, and those who manufacture it, and those who possess and view, it are all contributing to the sexual abuse and exploitation of the children shown in that pornography. Banning this material is not an attempt to "control desire", as Hawkeye falsely claims, it is part of the attempt to stop the sexual abuse and sexual exploitation of the child victims involved. The manufacturers and distributors of child pornography are supported by the people who possess and view it.


I 100% agree.
However, this raises another question.
What about child porn that does not use real people, its just drawings (cartoons, anime, etc.)

I know what the Federal law says (18 USC 1466A), but I am curious as to what you think.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:40 am
@Ionus,
You seem to be erroneously confusing the "women's movement" with the feelings of most women about the crime of rape. Most women want to prevent the crime of rape and see rapists held accountable for their actions. Most men want that too. This is not a concern which is exclusive to the "women's movement".

Quote:
Does it really require the same word as a violent sexual assault by a stranger ?


Yes, "rape" is a sex act committed without consent.

It makes no difference whether the rape is violent or not or whether it was committed by a stranger, a relative, an acquaintance, or a date. The law defines non consensual sex as rape.

There are, however, different degrees of punishment for different types of rapes because differences in the circumstances of rapes result in different classes of felony charges.

In statutory rape, the crime is considered "rape" because the victim of the crime is too young to give legal consent, so it is legally non consensual sex. In the case in question, with a 14 year old girl, the statutory rape charge would have carried a maximum possible sentence of four years. If the rape of that girl had also been forcible, a possible sentence could have been considerably longer than four years.
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:45 am
@firefly,
Two teenagers have consentual sex and we use the same word as a forcible penetration that leaves a person devastated ? I think something is seriously wrong.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:48 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Unlike prohibition of alcohol, the manufacture, distribution, and viewing of child pornography involves victimized human beings, and that puts it into an entirely different realm. The sexual abuse and exploitation of children cannot be tolerated. Those who possess and view such material support those who manufacture and distribute it, and they, therefore, contribute to the sexual abuse and exploitation of such children. The viewing and possession of this material is not a victimless crime--those are real children in the images and videos, and they are being sexually exploited by the person who views their images as a source and means of sexual arousal. And, once these images are available on the Internet, it becomes a very profound, and recurrent, violation of the privacy of that child, each time those images are viewed.

Child pornography is not in the same category as adult pornography. There is no justification for the toleration of child pornography at any level, and those who manufacture it, and those who possess and view, it are all contributing to the sexual abuse and exploitation of the children shown in that pornography. Banning this material is not an attempt to "control desire", as Hawkeye falsely claims, it is part of the attempt to stop the sexual abuse and sexual exploitation of the child victims involved. The manufacturers and distributors of child pornography are supported by the people who possess and view it. [ ?? ]
A point of information, as to your reasoning, if I may, Firefly:
a former client of mine inherited an estate, an inventory of whose furnishings included pictures of nude children.
I 'm wondering how this applies to your reasoning of "support" or of "contribution" to "abuse and exploitation of children" ?

What is the sequence of events
from cause to effect ?





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 10:55 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Give me a break most lawmakers in this country male or female will sell their souls
for a few more votes and donations for their reelection campaigns.

Only when and if the special interests had driven a matter so far out of sanity
will the mass of the population wake up and ask what the hell is going on and start to generated enough counterforce to correct the issue.
Bill, just in defense of democracy, I wanna point out that democracy can work ONLY with the assistance of special interest groups.
We, the voters, need them to spy on the politicians on all levels of government and to tell us what thay r getting ready to DO.
We can 't watch them all the time; thay CAN; we need their reports, otherwise the politicians will do whatever thay damn please.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:08 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
You seem to be erroneously confusing the "women's movement" with the feelings of most women about the crime of rape. Most women want to prevent the crime of rape and see rapists held accountable for their actions. Most men want that too. This is not a concern which is exclusive to the "women's movement".
It used to be, in some jurisdictions, that rapists were subject to being hanged.

I had no objection to that; if thay brought that back, I 'd deem the death penalty to be reasonable.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:21 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
Two teenagers have consentual sex and we use the same word as a forcible penetration that leaves a person devastated ? I think something is seriously wrong


AGREED

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:27 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
It used to be, in some jurisdictions, that rapists were subject to being hanged.
I had no objection to that; if thay brought that back, I 'd deem the death penalty to be reasonable.


As you likely know the Supreme Court does not agree with you but for what it is worth I do if we limit it to what the standard definition of rape is IE sex acts driven by force or threats of force or by drugging behind the “victim” back.

Not regret sex in how did I drink so must that I ended up agreeing to have sex with that bum or even he lied to me and told me that he could get me a modeling job and therefore it is rape by fraud.


firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:33 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
A point of information, as to your reasoning, if I may, Firefly:
a former client of mine inherited an estate, an inventory of whose furnishings included pictures of nude children.
I 'm wondering how this applies to your reasoning of "support" or of "contribution" to "abuse and exploitation of children" ?


All nude photos of children found in people's homes are not pornography. If someone inherited child pornography, and they found the material distasteful, I would expect that they would destroy and/or properly dispose of it. If they found the material sexually arousing, and continued to view it for purposes of sexual arousal, I would think that they were violating the privacy of the children depicted and becoming another link in the chain of the sexual exploitation of those children.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:36 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
if we limit it to what the standard definition of rape is IE sex acts driven by force or threats of force or by drugging behind the “victim” back.


You are making up your own definitions of "rape".

That is not the definition of rape in the state in which I live.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:38 am
@Ionus,
Ionus also please take note that the "women movement" as represent on this thread by Firefly are doing their very best to overstate the problem with pumps up numbers such as the 1 in 4 rape figures on college campuses.

If the problem of rape were as Firefly and her like is trying to portray and sell to the population I would be all for declaring Marshall Law and having public daily hangings in the court house square.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:40 am
@firefly,
Quote:
All nude photos of children found in people's homes are not pornography
just as we sometimes now dont know if our sex is legal until a court has ruled we also often dont know if our pictures of kids are porn until the court has ruled. We live with laws where parents having pics of their kids in bathing suits has brought them up on charges of possessing child porn. I gather that the rape feminists are fine with this invisible line of legality, as the hope is that between not being able to know what is legal or not and the draconian charges for possessing child porn hopefully people will refrain from having pics of kids that are at all questionable. The problem with this approach though is that it is an abuse of the citizens at the hands of the state.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:43 am
@firefly,
Quote:
If they found the material sexually arousing, and continued to view it for purposes of sexual arousal, I would think that they were violating the privacy of the children depicted and becoming another link in the chain of the sexual exploitation of those children.



So it is all a matter of what is in someone mind?

That would be an interesting problem writings laws so we can deal with a crime that is only being committed inside a person head.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:46 am
@firefly,
Quote:
That is not the definition of rape in the state in which I live.


And once more you are no lawyer as you had proven over and over on this thread and once more you are using the big lie method by charging me with what you yourself had been doing IE defining rape as you would wish it to be.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:46 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
That would be an interesting problem writings laws so we can deal with a crime that is only being committed inside a person head.
I see a theme developing, as firefly has it that rape takes place when ever a woman feels that she has been sexually violated. The actions and the motivations of the man are not relevant.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 11:50 am
@mysteryman,
Quote:
What about child porn that does not use real people, its just drawings (cartoons, anime, etc.)

Simulations of children that are considered obscene can contribute to the sexual exploitation of children, as a group, since such materials would still be promoting the idea of children as sexual objects, and therefore might pose some potential harm to actual children. However, I feel considerably less strongly about that sort of material than I do about pornography that uses actual images of real children.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 12:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
This is from a state Web site for the state of Washington. You live there, don't you, Hawkeye?

Quote:
Rape is any sexual intercourse with a person without his or her consent. It is an act of violence that uses sex as a weapon. There are many different types of rape that are important to distinguish as well. Stranger rape happens when the victim does not know his or her offender. Many people believe that this type of rape only happens to women who dress a certain way, walk alone at night, or park in parking garages. The reality of stranger rape is that it happens during the day and at night, to people from all different walks of life, and in lots of different places.

Acquaintance rape describes a rape in which the victim and the perpetrator are known to each other. The perpetrator might be a partner, coworker, best friend or neighbor. Did you know that this is the most common type of rape? 84 percent of rapes happen among people who know one another. Most of the time a person is raped by someone they know, trust, or love.

Date rape is a specific kind of acquaintance rape, referring to a rape that occurs between two people who are dating partners. Often times the victim is emotionally manipulated or coerced into having sex with his or her partner.

Marital rape, one of the least talked about forms of sexual assault, is rape between husband and wife. Because of personal and societal barriers to reporting marital rape, its prevalence is probably higher than we are aware.
http://www.commerce.wa.gov/site/261/default.aspx


0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 12:16 pm
You know I hate to even suggest that Firefly might from time to time indeed have a point but in regard to clear cut cases of child porn, she does.

It is clearly can be harmful long after the event shown to have such pictures in existence and using the legal system to punish people for having them is not uncalled for.

With that said, even the courts are beginning to take note that the society driven by the Fireflies of the world had gone nuts over this matter.

As must as children are harm by such pictures by going overboard and locking up the fathers and mothers of families for prolong periods and destroying thereafter their abilities to earn livings are also harming beside the person with the images his children and the society as a whole.

To me such pictures should be broken down into levels as is now done in the UK with the lowest levels only calling for a warning of some kind, the middle levels calling for heavy fines and only the worst levels calling for any prison time.

Anyone can do a fast Google news search and you will find that the majority of the men who are found with forbidden images have had no criminal record, have been useful citizens up to this point, and with no sign that they themselves had taken part in the direct harming of any child.
 

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