Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

Where in the Constitution does it say that the victim/witness must be in the same room with the defendant when giving testimony, rather than present on closed circuit TV? Where in the Constitution would it forbid cross-examination of the victim by a defense attorney rather than the accused?

Judges could modify the courtroom situation and procedures, to decrease undue stress on the victim, without jeopardizing the rights of the defendant.

At trial, the "accuser" is actually the state, not the victim--the criminal charge is brought in the name of the people of the state. In a murder trial, for instance, the victim is obviously not present.

Sorry but judge after judge had disagree with you on setting up the court room situation in most cases to your liking.

And the accuser in the sense of the constitution is clearly the person or persons who are claiming to be witness to a misdeed not the state!!!!!!!!!

Oh I know you view full grown women as children but for the most part the only ones who had been granted the right to testify by close circuit TV to date are young children and even in those cases the laws are not settle.

I know Firefly you would love to tear up the constitution and just lock up any male who any woman charge with sexual assault no trial needed.

Right and in the cases where those testifying are say, minors, children, etc., their testimony is often done on video tape and the child is not in the courtroom. Facing their accuser doesn't necessarily mean actually being in the same room with them. It is more a matter of being able to question the accuser and I don't believe the law says specifically they have to be in the same room at the same time.

And in some cases, where the defendant has been disruptive in the courtroom, I believe that they have removed the defendant and had him watch the proceedings on closed circuit TV in another room.

Indeed. Many defendants have missed a lot of their trial because of bad behavior.

All true however this exception to date had apply only to young children not fully adult women.

The supreme court had decided even in the case of young children by only a 5 to 4 ruling so at a guess your wish being granted to extent this to fully adult women is near zero.

I hope JJ is behaving himself!

Is he working on his bray ??





David

BULLSHIT

Firefly that what you been trying to sell from the very start of this thread and I can only wonder how many of your brain dead PC at any cost male supporters on this thread like you painting them as rapists Firefly!

In fact, I hear of the insanity that all heterosexual sex is in fact rape as far as the far far fringes of the Feminist movement is concern and the only non-rape sex that a woman can enjoy is lesbian sex.

Thank for slowly coming out of the closet on this issue Firefly.

Here is where Firefly is coming from in my opinion at least.


http://deltabravo.net/custody/quotes.php

"In a patriarchal society all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." Catherine MacKinnon in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies, p. 129..

"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire." From Robin Morgan, "Theory and Practice: Pornography and Rape" in "Going too Far," 1974. .

"When a woman reaches orgasm with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression..." Sheila Jeffrys .

"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." Andrea Dworkin

"Sex is the cross on which women are crucified ... Sex can only be adequately defined as universal rape." Hodee Edwards, ‘Rape defines Sex’

"Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat." Hillary Clinton, First Ladies' Conference on Domestic Violence in San Salvador, El Salvador on Nov. 17, 1998

"MAN: ... an obsolete life form... an ordinary creature who needs to be watched ... a contradictory baby-man ..."
"TESTOSTERONE POISONING: ... 'Until now it has been though that the level of testosterone in men is normal simply because they have it. But if you consider how abnormal their behavior is, then you are led to the hypothesis that almost all men are suffering from 'testosterone poisoning.'" from A Feminist Dictionary", ed. Kramarae and Treichler, Pandora Press, 1985

"Patriarchy requires violence or the subliminal threat of violence in order to maintain itself... The most dangerous situation for a woman is not an unknown man in the street, or even the enemy in wartime, but a husband or lover in the isolation of their home." Gloria Steinem in Revolution from Within: A Book of Self-Esteem, pp. 259-61..

"Women take their roles of caretakers very seriously and when they hear of someone who's taken advantage of a child, they react more strongly than men do." - Kathleen C. Faller, professor of social work at the University of Michigan

"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it." - Former Congresswoman Barbara Jordan

Melbourne City Councilwoman Pat Poole announced her opposition to renaming a street for Martin Luther King: "I wonder if he really accomplished things, or if he just stirred people up and caused a lot of riots."

"Our culture is depicting sex as rape so that men and women will become interested in it." Naomi Wolf, The Beauty Myth, p. 138..

"Under patriarchy, no woman is safe to live her life, or to love, or to mother children. Under patriarchy, every woman is a victim, past, present, and future. Under patriarchy, every woman's daughter is a victim, past, present, and future. Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman," Andrea Dworkin, Liberty, p.58..

"Compare victims' reports of rape with women's reports of sex. They look a lot alike....[T]he major distinction between intercourse (normal) and rape (abnormal) is that the normal happens so often that one cannot get anyone to see anything wrong with it." Catherine MacKinnon, quoted in Christina Hoff Sommers, "Hard-Line Feminists Guilty of Ms.-Representation," Wall Street Journal, November 7, 1991.

"The fact is that the process of killing - both rape and battery are steps in that process- is the prime sexual act for men in reality and/or in imagination.". Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 22..

"Man's discovery that his genitalia could serve as a weapon to generate fear must rank as one of the most important discoveries of prehistoric times, along with the use of fire, and the first crude stone axe." Susan Brownmiller, Against Our Will: Men, Women, and Rape, p. 5..

"The newest variations on this distressingly ancient theme center on hormones and DNA: men are biologically aggressive; their fetal brains were awash in androgen; their DNA, in order to perpetuate itself, hurls them into murder and rape." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 114..

When asked: "You [Greer] were once quoted as saying your idea of the ideal man is a woman with a dick. Are you still that way inclined?"
Dr Greer (denying that she said it): "I have a great deal of difficulty with the idea of the ideal man. As far as I'm concerned, men are the product of a damanged gene. They pretend to be normal but what they're doing sitting there with benign smiles on their faces is they're manufacturing sperm. They do it all the time. They never stop. I mean, we women are more reasonable. We pop one follicle every 28 days, whereas they are producing 400 million sperm for each ejaculation, most of which don't take place anywhere near an ovum. I don't know that the ecosphere can tolerate it." Germaine Greer, at a Hilton Hotel literary lunch, promoting her book #34; The Change-- Women, Aging and the Menopause#34; . From a newsreport dated 14/11/91

"One can know everything and still be unable to accept the fact that sex and murder are fused in the male consciousness, so that the one without the imminent possibly of the other is unthinkable and impossible." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 21..

"Cosmetic surgery and the ideology of self-improvement may have made women's hope for legal recourse to justice obsolete." Naomi Wolf, The Beauty Myth, p. 55..

"Sex as desired by the class that dominates women is held by that class to be elemental, urgent, necessary, even if or even though it appears to require the repudiation of any claim women might have to full human standing. In the subordination of women, inequality itself is sexualized, made into the experience of sexual pleasure, essential to sexual desire." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 265..

"AIDS education will not get very far until young men are taught how not to rape young women and how to eroticize trust and consent; and until young women are supported in the way they need to be redefining their desires." Naomi Wolf, The Beauty Myth, p. 168..

"In everything men make, they hollow out a central place for death, let its rancid smell contaminate every dimension of whatever still survives. Men especially love murder. In art they celebrate it, and in life they commit it. They embrace murder as if life without it would be devoid of passion, meaning, and action, as if murder were solace, still their sobs as they mourn the empitness and alienation of their lives." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 214..

"One of the reasons that women are kept in a state of economic degradation- because that's what it is for most women- is because that is the best way to keep women sexually available." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 145..

"Romance is rape embellished with meaningful looks." Andrea Dworkin in the Philadelphia Inquirer, May 21, 1995..

"Ninety-five percent of women's experiences are about being a victim. Or about being an underdog, or having to survive...women didn't go to Vietnam and blow up things up. They are not Rambo." Jodie Foster in The New York Times Magazine, January 6, 1991, p. 19..

"All men are rapists and that's all they are." Marilyn French in People, February 20, 1983..

"All men benefit from rape, because all men benefit from the fact that women are not free in this society; that women cower; that women are afraid; that women cannot assert the rights that we have, limited as those rights are, because of the ubiquitous presence of rape." Andrea Dworkin, Letters from a War Zone, p. 142..

"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometime gain from the experience." Catherine Comins, Vassar College Assistant Dean of Student Life in Time, June 3, 1991, p. 52..

"We have long known that rape has been a way of terrorizing us and keeping us in subjection. Now we also know that we have participated, although unwittingly, in the rape of our minds." Historian Gerda Lerner in Who Stole Feminism: How Women Have Betrayed Women, p. 55..

"Only with the occasional celebrity crime do we allow ourselves to think the nearly unthinkable: that the family may not be the ideal and perfect living arrangement after all - that it can be a nest of pathology and a cradle of gruesome violence,... Even in the ostensibly "functional," nonviolent family, where no one is killed or maimed, feelings are routinely bruised and often twisted out of shape. There is the slap or the put-down that violates a child's shaky sense of self, the cold, distracted stare that drives a spouse to tears, the little digs and rivalries... Barbara Ehrenreich in Time Magazine

"The nuclear family is a hotbed of violence and depravity." Gordon Fitch

"How will the family unit be destroyed? ...[T]he demand alone will throw the whole ideology of the family into question, so that women can begin establishing a community of work with each other and we can fight collectively. Women will feel freer to leave their husbands and become economically independent, either through a job or welfare." Roxanne Dunbar in Female Liberation

"Feminists have long criticized marriage as a place of oppression, danger, and drudgery for women. Barbara Findlen, "Is Marriage the Answer? Ms Magazine, May - June, 1995

"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage. Robin Morgan, from Sisterhood Is Powerful (ed), 1970, p. 537

"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership. Only when manhood is dead--and it will perish when ravaged femininity no longer sustains it" Andrea Dworkin

"The cultural institutions which embody and enforce those interlocked aberrations--for instance, law, art, religion, nation-states, the family, tribe, or commune based on father-right--these institutions are real and they must be destroyed." Andrea Dworkin

"I was struck by what a beneficial alternative to the nuclear family this arrangement [communal housing and child raising] was for these women and children." Lenore Walker, after visiting one of the early shelters for battered women, as cited in The Battered Woman, p.195

"The nuclear family must be destroyed, and people must find better ways of living together.... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process.... No woman should have to deny herself any opportunities because of her special responsibilities to her children... Families will be finally destroyed only when a revolutionary social and economic organization permits people's needs for love and security to be met in ways that do not impose divisions of labor, or any external roles, at all." Linda Gordon, "Functions of the Family," WOMEN: A Journal of Liberation, Fall, 1969

"God is going to change. We women... will change the world so much that He won't fit anymore." Naomi Goldenberg, Changing of the Gods: Feminism and the End of Traditional Religions (Quoted at beginning of From Father God to Mother Earth)

"We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men..." Elizabeth Stanton, One Woman, One Vote, Wheeler, p. 58

"Who cares how men feel or what they do or whether they suffer? They have had over 2000 years to dominate and made a complete hash of it. Now it is our turn. My only comment to men is, if you don't like it, bad luck - and if you get in my way I'll run you down." Signed: Liberated Women, Boronia. (Herald-Sun, Melbourne, Australia - 9 February 1996)

it is difficult to know where firefly stands, because she does not not have enough integrity to honestly tell us where she stands. She is likely either in the camp of those who believe that the only acceptable sex for women is lesbian sex or self sex. However, she might be in the camp of those who claim that in theory it is possible for women to properly sexual with men, so long as the women are always in charge of deciding what happens, and this control by women is supported by law and so long as this domination of men is accepted by men.

Not exactly Bullshit.....Normal masculine sometimes needs to take and normal feminine sometimes need to be taken, the ravishment of the female by the male is one of the most meaningful motifs of human erotica. We also reverse things at times (though not very often) where the feminine ravishes the masculine. This is not about the subjugation of women as the rape feminists believe to the bottom of their beings, this is about humans being humans, and the rape feminists not respecting humans enough to let humans be humans. The basic premise of the rape feminists is wrong, thus all that follows is also wrong, is bad for us. The sooner that we wise up the better off we will be.

Did you also take note that Firefly did not response to my question of if she had a bucket in the river of money flowing from the Federal government over this issue or not?

she also continually avoids confronting the question of where aggression fits into normal intimate relationship, both sexual and otherwise. All she will say is that it is wrong, and that using force and coercion to get individuals to stop doing it is proper. Strangely (or not so strangely) she rarely wants to talk about the controlling techniques that women routinely use....if one listens to her one would be prone to conclude that women are about as pure as the driven snow.

Using her views to talk on relationship is the equivalent of using star trek the movies to talk about technology, her claims about what humans are are just as much fantasy. we are who we are, some of it is not pretty, some of it offends our morality, a lot of it is inexplicable....but at the end of the day we need to be real before all other agenda's. There is great danger when one confuses fantasy for reality, because once we no longer know what is we lose all control over our destiny.

Hawkeye what I find interesting is it seems Firefly position is that any pressure of any kind or in any manner on a woman for sexual intercourse turns the act into rape.

I do not know too many men who had not apply pressure of one kind or another on his partner for sex at one time or another so if that how you define rape then all men are indeed rapists.

The universal rule that I had growth up with is that as long as that pressure was not in the form of force or a threat of force/harm then any consent gain by this pressure may or may not be gentlemanly but it was a valid consent.

Somehow, I cannot picture a Firefly world where if you "force" a sexual partner to have sex by threatening to break up with her otherwise you are a rapist in the same class as it you held a knife at her throat.

All human interactions are complex and have elements of pressures and that normally does not effect how valid consent is or is not.

I once was told that in order to keep my job I needed to sign a non-compete agreement and my consent under the pressure of a job loss otherwise was legally valid.

I dont know too many woman who don't apply pressure to their men to get what THEY want either. it seems that there are supposed to be special rules for sex, and for men.... that the double standard rule is supposed to be in force.

Although, there are some feminists who are so delusional that they claim that pressure should never be applied to anyone by anyone....they claim that all humans have a right to do is to communicate our needs/wants/desires, that we have no right to try to get what we want from other people. I find this position somewhat hilarious when our entire economic system and political systems have become BASED upon the exploitation of each other in the attempt to get our needs met.

Even more so is that fact that while there are many feminists who will sing all day long that no pressure can be applied to women by men the feminist go-to solution to impose their agenda has been the use of the law and police to force individuals to adopt the desired behaviour. I love how men can not be allowed to pressure women even indirectly or subtly, but the Feminists are fine with they themselves using overt force to pressure both men and women. The feminists are also well practiced in using guilt trips, and outrageous claims of victim hood in their attempts to get what they want.

Ya gotta love the double standards...and the hypocrisy. How they have gotten away with being so dishonest for so long I would love to know.

Non consensual sex is rape.

My, my, how that thought--and how those rape laws--cause the trolls to get their panties into a bunch.

Considering that both of them have admitted in this thread that they have committed legally defined rape at one time or another, it's rather odd that they should both suddenly get so worked up about this article that simply says that normal men might commit rape.

The only explanation? They must resent being thought of as "normal men".

Guess we should continue to regard them as pervs and deviants, just to make them happy. ROFL

Scum. Can we use the word, scum? Huh, huh?

Sorry dear heart I never said I had rape anyone in a moral or a legal sense only by the way you wish to redefine rape would that be true for myself and most other males.

You seem to have no problem with lying at all now do you?