25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 08:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
A primary reason for not reporting was a victim’s desire to maintain privacy.

The Rape in America report (Kilpatrick et al., 1992) included information relevant to why most victims are reluctant to report (see Figure 1). Major concerns identified by victims were: being blamed by others, their families finding out about the rape, other people findings out, and their names being made public by the news media.

http://www.musc.edu/vawprevention/research/sa.shtml

it is not about shame, these are not defective broken like firefly wants to believe, these are women who have been offered a bad deal, and so they reject it. They decide that they are better off not reporting. If you want them to report then offer them something better. This aint complicated.
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 08:58 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
come on....you arnt that slow

obviously YOU are if you can't even post a complete link.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 09:06 pm
@panzade,
Quote:
obviously YOU are if you can't even post a complete link.
It is all there, but some of it falls off the hyperlink because of some software clitch
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 09:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
A primary reason for not reporting was a victim’s desire to maintain privacy.


Jesus H Christ Hawk. That's just the same as saying they're ashamed. And...because rape is a crime of control, power and aggression they sure as **** don't want to go another round with the perp. I mean, how clear can a concept be?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 09:09 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
A primary reason for not reporting was a victim’s desire to maintain privacy.

The Rape in America report (Kilpatrick et al., 1992) included information relevant to why most victims are reluctant to report (see Figure 1). Major concerns identified by victims were: being blamed by others, their families finding out about the rape, other people findings out, and their names being made public by the news media.
In what demented parallel universe are these reasons incompatible with shame?
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 09:14 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
In what demented parallel universe are these reasons incompatible with shame?
shame is one of hundreds of reasons why people like to maintain privacy, and we have other studies that show that shame is not the major motivator for sexual assault victims to desire privacy. We had a good lesson of this in the Polanski case, where the victim was not at all ashamed but did not want everyone else up in her business.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 09:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
it is not about shame, these are not defective broken like firefly wants to believe, these are women who have been offered a bad deal, and so they reject it. They decide that they are better off not reporting. If you want them to report then offer them something better. This aint complicated.


I have never implied that rape victims are in any way "defective".

But you fail to realize that victim blaming, or the assumptions of "she asked for it" or "she wanted it", or, even worse, "She's lying about it", do cause feelings of shame, embarrassment, and stigma--that's why many women do try to keep it private.

Quote:
If you want them to report then offer them something better


Like a law enforcement system that takes their rape reports seriously and investigates them, rape kits that are analyzed in a timely manner, D.A.s who are determined to seek convictions for rape, and juries who realize that it is the defendant, and not the victim who is on trial.

Yes, we should offer rape victims something better. That's been a primary theme of this thread.

BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 09:46 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
even worse, "She's lying about it",


Some women do lie and they are not for the most part being punish to any great degree for doing so.

They are the ones hurting the real victims of sexual assaults as well as the men who they had falsely accuse and therefore should be punish harshly in my opinion.

The police should look into all charges seriously but that does not mean that they do not have an obligation to screen out the false charges.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 09:51 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Like a law enforcement system that takes their rape reports seriously and investigates them, rape kits that are analyzed in a timely manner, D.A.s who are determined to seek convictions for rape, and juries who realize that it is the defendant, and not the victim who is on trial.

You assume that rape victims want vengeance. I am not convinced. Making the laws much more inclusive and with more harsh penalties has not motivated victims to report more often, so I think your premise is flawed. I think they want something else, I think they want the violations to stop in such a way the making this happen is not destructive to their lives or unduly disruptive to the guys who have raped them. We dont seem t0 have done much study about what rape victims want however, i suggest that we do some.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 10:01 pm
I don't wonder that this verdict shocked the courtroom. Jurors seem to have disregarded the man's apology--which was a confession--and focused more on the apparent lack of forced entry into her home. So, they concluded that she invited him in. Rolling Eyes They felt "she wanted it". And this woman went to great lengths to help learn the identity of the rapist and to help the police track him down and arrest him. This one should have been an open and shut case. Is it any wonder that victims don't have confidence in the criminal justice system with juries like this?

Quote:

'Text message rapist' Timothy West acquitted of rape despite apology secretly recorded by cops
By Thomas Zambito AND Helen Kennedy
Daily News Staff Writers
Thursday, October 28th 2010

The accused "text message rapist" - who apologized to a Queens woman for raping her in a phone call that cops secretly recorded - was aquitted on all counts Thursday.

The decision shocked the courtroom.

Timothy West, 26, was cleared of four charges that he entered an Ozone Park home in 2009 through a window and raped and robbed a 21-year-old waitress at knifepoint in her own bed.

The jury of nine women and three men returned the verdict after deliberating one day.

"Justice was done," said West's lawyer, Mihea Kim, who has complained that the press misrepresented her client.

"I am ecstatic that Mr. West has been fully vindicated by the jury. I was confident that he was innocent from the beginning.
They saw the case for what it was."
West, who leaned over to hug his lawyer when the jury forewoman read the verdict, earned a reprimand from the judge.

"Cut that out. That's not appropriate. You're in a courtroom," snapped Queens Supreme Court Justice Richard Buchter.

Kim had told the jury that West and his accuser had consensual sex in her home.

Privately, several jurors interviewed after the verdict said they didn't buy the victim's story because there were no signs of forced entry into her home.

One juror said the panel believed the victim must have known West, and that she let him into her home.

West has a history of housebreaking and was on parole for robbery when arrested, but the jury did not hear that evidence: Buchter ruled it could prejudice the jury against him.

The Ozone Park waitress said she didn't fight West because she was afraid of his knife.

She said she pretended to be friendly and gave West her phone number, asking him to text her later, hoping the ruse would allow police to nab him.

Her brother called 911 right after West left her home. The Applebee's waitress could be heard weeping in the background.

West texted her that evening, and she got him to phone her. Cops recorded the whole thing and prosecutors played the chilling tape for the jury.

On the tape, the woman asked West: "You just broke into my house, yo. I've never seen you before...You try to rob me, then you rape me. Why you did that to me?"

"I do apologize from the bottom of my heart," he told her. "You mad at me?"

She persisted, "What made you want to come in and break into my house? Why my house?"

He replied, "It was just random."

Though acquitted of rape, West did not go free yesterday.

He is serving out a seven-year prison term for an attempted burglary in Brooklyn earlier this year and was led out of the courtroom in handcuffs.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/10/28/2010-10-28_text_message_rapist_timothy_west_acquitted_of_rape_despite_secretly_recorded_apo.html



firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 10:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I think they want the violations to stop in such a way the making this happen is not destructive to their lives or unduly disruptive to the guys who have raped them. We dont seem t0 have done much study about what rape victims want however, i suggest that we do some.


Why don't you try reading the statements made by rape victims, and numerous articles posted in this thread have contained such statements. They clearly want justice. The problem is, they don't feel it's likely that they will get it.

Do you really think that rape victims worry about unduly disrupting the lives of "the guys who have raped them"? The violation to the rape victim has already occurred, the destructive effect to her has already occurred--she was raped. Why would she then be concerned about disrupting his life? Wouldn't his life warrant being "disrupted" if he committed a rape?

Unfortunately, rape victims often encounter a law enforcement system and a criminal justice process that makes them feel additionally violated, and many cannot put themselves through that ordeal. But that doesn't mean these rape victims don't want justice, that they don't want to see their rapists punished.

Harsher penalties keep rapists off the streets for longer periods. That's the purpose of such punishments, not to increase reporting.

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 10:41 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Why don't you try reading the statements made by rape victims, and numerous articles posted in this thread have contained such statements. They clearly want justice. The problem is, they don't feel it's likely that they will get it.
It is telling that when it is pointed out to you that a few decades of extensively law and ordering sexual transgression has not resulted in much of a jump in reporting that all you can point to to justify your claim that vengeance is what the victims want is anecdotal evidence. This is a very simple question, science should be able to answer it easily, the fact that we don't seem to have studied the question hardly at all I think goes to show how successful the rape feminists have been in keeping questions that they don't want asked out of the conversation.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 10:41 pm
@panzade,
Quote:
Start coming out of the shadows so our society can start dealing with rape as a misogynistic ailment that afflicts our country.


I think the trolls completely missed your point about rape being a "misogynistic ailment" that afflicts society.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 10:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
What victim of any crime does not want to see justice done?

If your house is burglarized, do you not want the burglar punished?

The problems with the reporting of rapes have a great deal to do with how the victim of a rape is perceived and treated, and that is why victim blaming and rape myths are such destructive influences.

Rape victims make victim impact statements all the time in courts before their rapists are sentenced, and, at those times, they do state their feelings regarding punishment. Funny, I have never read about a single victim who said she didn't want to see her rapist's life "disrupted".

The law sets the penalties for rape, just as it does for the other crimes. The victim is not greatly involved in that aspect of the process--for any crime.





hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 11:24 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
What victim of any crime does not want to see justice done?

the one who does not think that a crime has been committed (we can start with the rape victims who dont think that they have been raped and then add on), the ones who think that justice is too much trouble, the ones where pursuit of justice is going to highlight their own stupidity, the ones who think that sex is private and that their sex lives should not be up in everyone's business (you seem to forget that the program to get rape reclassified from a sex act to a violence act has only been partly successful) , the ones who dont think that the rape was a big deal so they feel that the harsh treatment their rapist would endure is unfair,....and I am sure that their are many other reasons.

Your elitism is showing again, you decide for other people what they should want, and proceed on with out ever having the decency to find out what other people want, and why they want it.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 11:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
the ones where pursuit of justice is going to highlight their own stupidity,


What a perfect example of victim blaming...

You continually remind me why you should be ignored. Laughing

We've had at least three rape victims post in this thread and you showed no interest in any of them, or in tying to understand their feelings about what happened to them. So, your sudden concern for what rape victims really want is more than slightly suspect.

You're just continuing to promote your own agenda about "non rapes" and your desire to see rape laws abolished.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 11:40 pm
Quote:
Columnist Writes of Daughter's Rape
By Michael Kelly
Omaha World-Herald

Now you don't have to read between the lines and wonder: My daughter was raped.

Since she was attacked June 21 by a stranger who kicked in her locked apartment door, World-Herald news stories and two of my columns have said that she was abducted, robbed, shot and left for dead.

That's in keeping with this newspaper's long-standing policy not to name rape victims. It's a good policy, grounded in the notion that much of society still attaches a stigma to rape victims and that printing names might discourage victims from going to the police.

The policy remains, and victims need not fear that their names will be printed in the paper. They should report a crime that is believed to be the most underreported of crimes.

My daughter's attack in Texas made news in Omaha because of its horrible nature – she was shot in the back with 9 mm bullets – and because she grew up in Omaha. Editors say an additional factor, and one causing Bridget's name to be published initially, was that she is the daughter of a longtime columnist.

A grand jury in Bell County, Texas, indicted a man Wednesday on five counts, including attempted murder and aggravated sexual assault. Because Bridget's name had already been reported in connection with the shooting, the sexual-assault charge created a policy dilemma for editors, who decided – with the concurrence of my daughter, my wife and me – to make a rare exception and report it.

In the hospital more than a month ago at Fort Hood, Texas, unable to speak at first, Bridget wrote that in news coverage of her case, "It's OK if they say rape."

She says she wasn't speaking for others or suggesting how they should feel. But she adds: "Why is it more shameful to be a rape victim than a gunshot victim?"

Surely, it is not. But there is shame in rape, and it rests squarely with the attacker, not the victim.

Historically, though, society unfairly has made many rape victims feel either that they contributed to the attacks or that they are somehow diminished – stigmatized – merely by being victims.

The stigma from this awful crime should be on the predator, not on the prey.

In conversation, our family has spoken openly about our daughter's ordeal. We honor her courage in not only surviving her attack but also in not being ashamed.

To be sure, she has wept. So have my wife and I. So have our daughter's grandmas and brothers and sister and aunts and uncles and cousins and friends and colleagues and, in some cases, kind people we haven't met. The circle of anguish spreads widely.

Our 25-year-old daughter has endured extreme physical pain from her brutal attack as well as mental pain – post-traumatic stress and anxiety, which will continue. She has benefited from physical and psychological care, and is determined to return to a full life and her career as a first-grade teacher.
But there have been moments of near despair.

"This should never have happened to you," I said painfully at her bedside that first weekend. Crying, she replied: "This should never happen to anybody."
But it does. And the silence about rape may add to the feelings of victimization.

Geneva Overholser, then editor of the Des Moines Register, made that point in 1989. "I believe that we will not break down the stigma," she wrote, "until more and more women take public stands. ... Rape is an American shame. Our society needs to see that and attend to it, not hide it or hush it up."

Sexual violation is not sex, it's violence. It's not love, it's hate. It's not so much an act of lust as of power and control.

Because rape is such a personal and despicable act, it is natural for victims and their families not to talk. But perhaps, in the long run, that works to the advantage of the attacker and to the detriment of the victim.

Justice Department figures indicate that one woman in three is a victim of some form of sexual assault during her lifetime. Since our daughter's attack, that statistic is no longer static – it has come alive, all around us.

Dear friends of ours for 20 or 30 years, several of them, have revealed that they were raped. We had no idea. Some never told police, counselors or even family members.

"If you or your daughter ever need someone to talk to," an Omaha colleague told me quietly, "I'd be happy to do so. A man broke into my home 11 years ago and raped me."

People we met in Texas told us painful and harrowing stories – a 9-year-old daughter, now 23, beaten nearly to death in an attempted rape; a wife, now in her 40s, abducted in her 20s, chained to a pig sty and raped; an airline supervisor's daughter, now 15, raped by a stranger when she was 12.

The news reports of my daughter's abduction and shooting, and of her 200-yard trek to a subdivision seeking help, produced a comforting wave of sympathy and encouragement. The cards, e-mails and prayers had a tangible result for us and for her – they are helping us all get better.

We are so grateful. But at the same time I hold feelings bordering almost on guilt. Why? Because most rape victims must go it alone. They don't get all that moral support.

The walking wounded from the crime of rape try to move on. They rebuild their lives, return to their jobs, rejoin society, caress their children and try to smile – hiding the horror they experienced.

Some victims suffer for years. Some families break up.

And all of that is in addition to the immediate fear of impregnation, HIV or other diseases. (My daughter is not pregnant, and her first HIV test was negative; more are needed.)

Because my daughter's attacker had a gun and was a criminal, he made her feel helpless. But not hopeless.

She tried to talk with him, saying she was a teacher and didn't he remember his teachers? He reacted coldly, telling her to shut up.

Her strong religious faith strengthened her spirit. As he was about to rape her, she told him: "God doesn't want you to do this."

He ignored her. Even as she feared for her life, knowing what might come next, she offered her suffering up to God.

When the man was finished with her, he got dressed and told her to turn around. He shot her in the back, and she fell. He shot her twice more.

He thought she was dead and left in her car.

The Catholic faith, which Bridget practices, honors a saint named Maria Goretti. A century ago this month, Maria was stabbed 14 times in an attempted rape and died the next day.

By coincidence, according to an account I read, she had used words almost identical to my daughter's. Trying to rebuff the man, Maria said: "No! It is a sin! God does not want it."

God does not want rape, and neither does our society. And yet it continues, and we rarely talk about it.

http://www.justicejournalism.org/crimeguide/chapter06/sidebars/chap06_xside1.html


And simply talking about it, bringing it out of the shadows, making it real, is one of the reasons for this thread.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 28 Oct, 2010 11:41 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
What a perfect example of victim blaming...
"blaming" is your choice of terms, however equally appropriate is "taking responsibility for". Victims, like everyone else, sometimes take responsibility for their mistakes and foolishness, and sometimes do not want such to be broadcast to their friends and loved ones. It is about self respect and dignity, not shame. and id does not mean that they feel responsible for the rape either.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2010 02:15 am
Bridget Kelly, the daughter of the newspaper columnist who wrote the article in my last post, went on to become a spokesperson for the Texas Association Against Sexual Assault. Her aim has been to speak out publicly in order to decrease the stigma and sense of shame associated with rape. She wants other rape victims to know that they are not alone. After her public service announcement aired on TV, calls to the Texas rape hotline went up 200%.

An interview with her can be seen here--just click on the video link

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/21/earlyshow/contributors/tracysmith/main584952.shtml
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Oct, 2010 02:21 am
@firefly,
Does Bridget Kelly support and encourage women and girls to defensively arm themselves
against the chance of violent felony ?

Every predatory event (including rape) is a contest of power.





David
 

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