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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 02:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Re: Arella Mae (Post 4393242)
edit: this may be the post you are looking for...

http://able2know.org/topic/158723-140#post-4351261


AM, I think you are thinking of something Bill said, not me. However, if you read his post you will see clearly that he was confused, he did not realize that what BBB said was about herself. If you want to dump on Bill you should in my opinion confine your criticism to his inability to comprehend, not claim that he was trying to be hurtful towards BBB. Bill has already apologized, though it was weaker than I would have liked to see.
You seem to be behind a bit in the posts on this thread Hawkeye. Scroll back some please.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 02:54 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Arella Mae, I'd like to read that study, but, when I click on the link, the page does not load.
Okay, go here: http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Topics/SearchResults.aspx?TopicName=Crime&topicID=56&txtKeywordSearch=rape

This is the study:

Drug-facilitated, Incapacitated, and Forcible Rape: A National Study

That should be second on the search list. Then click on the pdf. I hope that works.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 02:55 pm
Rapes of men are not included in those FBI forcible rape statistics, nor are oral or anal rapes of women, nor is vaginal rape with an object.

Quote:
The FBI: Defining Away 'Rape'
Elizabeth Renter
September 16, 2010

How would you define a rape? Perhaps as any forcible sexual act involving penetration? Well, the FBI thinks that's a little too broad. Instead, they define rape as "the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will." Historically this has only applied to sexual intercourse in the most basic respect -- not oral, anal, or vaginal rape by an object. This also means that any rape against a male doesn't count for purposes of FBI record keeping.

Why does the FBI’s definition matter? It matters for several reasons, including the fact that this limited definition is standing in the way of an accurate measure of rapes across the country and even, perhaps, affecting how police agencies handle reports of rape by victims in their communities.

This week the Senate crime and drugs subcommittee met with several women's rights organizations, victims’ advocate groups and other interested parties to discuss the problems of under reported rapes. At issue was recent stories of major police agencies downplaying rape rates in their cities and even sweeping cases under the rug. The FBI's definition of "forcible rape" was also discussed, as their Uniform Crime Report has perhaps erroneously indicated a dramatically falling trend in rapes, with numbers declining over 6 percent since 2005.

While the FBI recognizes other acts as a form of sexual assault, rape is the only crime which they classify as a Part I offense in the Uniform Crime Report, an annually published record of crime rates across the country.

Law enforcement agencies nationwide submit data to the FBI for inclusion in the UCR. Despite this report being completely voluntary, there is said to be a 93 percent participation rate. And though there are always shortcomings and margins of error with any system designed to track crime, the UCR is considered the go-to report when politicians, reporters or other officials need to cite crime statistics. Because of this, it would be in the self serving interest of some agencies to show lower crime rates, to reflect that their crime control techniques are really working when they really aren't...

Elizabeth Renter is a freelance writer who studied criminal justice at Bellevue University. She blogs for several defense attorneys.
http://criminaljustice.change.org/blog/view/the_fbi_defining_away_rape
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 03:03 pm
It's good to know that there are dedicated prosecutors who take rape reports seriously and continue to try rape cases despite the difficulties involved.

Quote:

High incidence of rape compounded by difficulty in prosecution
Lynn Taylor Rick,
Journal staff
October 18, 2010

Two years ago, Pennington County State’s Attorney Glenn Brenner tried a case in which he had evidence the defendant drugged a co-worker in order to rape her.

Despite the evidence, the jury acquitted the man.

Brenner said jurors could not agree whether the sex was consensual, possibly because the two people knew each other. Such jury decisions are one of the countless challenges prosecutors face when taking rape cases to trial, he said.

“Our Pennington County juries have said time and time again that we’re not going to be able to find this person guilty,” he said, referring to date rape cases and cases where the victim and perpetrator may have known each other.

Unfortunately, those are the most common types of rape in the area, far more common than stranger rape, said Lt. Marty Graves with the Pennington County Sheriff’s Department and Rapid City Police Department joint sexual assault unit. Of the 79 rapes reported in Rapid City in 2009, just one was a “stranger rape.”

Over the past 10 years, South Dakota and particularly West River have earned a reputation as having a high rape rate. FBI statistics show that South Dakota had 445 forcible rapes in 2009. Forcible rape does not include statutory rape.

By contrast, North Dakota reported 225 in 2009, while Wyoming reported 185, according to FBI statistics. In Pennington County, 25 rapes were reported in 2009 along with the 79 reported in Rapid City.

Police investigators and prosecutors are leery of comparing state statistics in a crime as complicated as rape. The numbers can’t be compared or even taken at face value, Brenner said.

“When you just look at numbers, they really distort and lie,” Brenner said. “It’s misinformation.”

The crime of rape encompasses a wide variety of situations. It might be a child sexual assault. It might be an adult rape case. It might be what’s called a “stranger rape.” It might be a rape involving two people who know each other. On occasion, investigations find that a rape report is false.

“The cases are so different,” he said.

Drugs and alcohol are also often involved, blurring memories and intentions. Brenner said local police often get reports from victims who, while intoxicated and unconscious, believe they may have been sexually assaulted. In many cases, they have no memory of it. Such cases are nearly impossible to try, Brenner said.

On top of those challenges, Brenner said there often is no physical evidence to indicate rape. There are no bruises, no welts; only evidence of intercourse that can be defended in court as consensual.

While proving rape cases can be almost impossible on occasion, Brenner said his office takes every report seriously.

In 2009, 29 rape cases were brought to the state’s attorney’s office by the sexual assault unit. Eleven of those were not charged due to lack of evidence and/or information. Of the remaining 18, seven ended in some kind of conviction. Three are pending and two are delayed due to outstanding warrants. “And we’ll get those,” Brenner said.

Six cases were dismissed due to an uncooperative victim or some other factor.

“These are perhaps the most unique; the most challenging to prosecute,” Brenner said.

Another difficult element of rape cases involves protecting the victim while still giving the defendant a fair trial.

In a rape trial, the victim will likely be forced to recount the rape in front of a jury. Even mental health counseling they received after the crime will be admissible in court, Brenner said.

If a jury acquits, victims often feel they have been victimized again, he said.

Brenner said he has acquaintances who work within the criminal justice system who would hesitate to report a rape because they know what the victim will go through.

That’s frustrating for Brenner, who believes perpetrators who get acquittals may feel empowered to rape again. To prevent that, prosecutors often plea bargain to lesser charges in order to ensure some type of punishment rather than risk a jury acquittal, he said.

Despite the challenges, Brenner said his office will continue to pursue rape charges whenever possible. And he believes local juries are beginning to better understand what constitutes consensual sex versus rape.

“As a whole, we try difficult cases in this office and we’re going to continue to do so,” Brenner said. “It’s a terrible offense … but it’s very difficult to prove.”

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/news/article_460eed42-da56-11df-9c1c-001cc4c03286.html
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 03:05 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Rapes of men are not included in those FBI forcible rape statistics, nor are oral or anal rapes of women, nor is vaginal rape with an object.
Maybe sodomies; rapes apply only to females.





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 04:08 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
take rape reports seriously and continue to try rape cases despite the difficulties involved


Difficulties like a large percents of the men in question are innocent?

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 04:15 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Rapes of men are not included in those FBI forcible rape statistics, nor are oral or anal rapes of women, nor is vaginal rape with an object.


Does not matter in the least as far as the fact that the numbers are tending down and are now at a 30 years low.

Unless you are of the opinion that the percentile break down of the assaults that are not counted and the ones that are had change a great deal over the last thirty years.

Sorry that there is good news on the sexual assault front instead of the world coming to an end.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 04:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Tens?? I think we are up to hundreds at least Bill....


Yes, I know and is it not odd that the only time AM and firefly are happy when they are claiming that more women are being rape then ever before and are very unhappy with any information that would indicate otherwise?

If the pump up numbers that the Fireflies of the world had any truth to them I would be all for declaring marital law nationwide and holding summary executions.

In a world of completely out of control sexual assaults that had been painted here did in fact exist, any price would be worth paying to stop it up to executing large numbers of innocent men.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 05:01 pm
@firefly,
Since I saw that video that explains feminist rape statistics ( Rolling Eyes ) I have no desire whatsoever to converse with those two again. Anyone that would fall for that absolute perversion of the truth is best left to themselves.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 05:06 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Since I saw that video that explains feminist rape statistics ( ) I have no desire whatsoever to converse with those two again. Anyone that would fall for that absolute perversion of the truth is best left to themselves.


Yes I bet you do not wish to deal with anything that contain solid facts or that there seem very solid indications that sexual assaults are now at a 30 years low.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 05:13 pm
HLN just put out another war on woman comment on the air over a man and his common-law wife disappearing and then the body of the lady then being found.

Who know if he did or did not kill his wife or if he was kill along with his wife and they had not as yet found his body.

In any case when a husband or boyfriend is found dead and the woman is missing I do not remember any war on men comments from HLN!
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 05:28 pm
@Arella Mae,
I think first person accounts of rape and sexual assault are more compelling in raising awareness than statistics, fact sheets, and other impersonal numbers, and that's been true in this thread too thanks to the women, like you, who have shared their experiences.

Quote:
Stories of sexually assaulted students read aloud
By Sam Diederich
October 26, 2010
Matt Binter

Ashley Eller, freshman in biology and Spanish, reads a story of abuse during the Purple Cried event Monday afternoon in Bosco Plaza. The stories were from former K-State students who were assaulted.
One K-State student wrote of the sexual abuse suffered at the hands of her father. Another remembered the betrayal of a trusted friend, a sorority sister who turned a blind eye and a cold shoulder to her as she fell victim to date rape. Still another recalled the all-too-real details of a boyfriend coercing her into an involuntary sexual relationship.

These stories, and others equally as grim, echoed across the Bosco Plaza on Monday as students from the School of Leadership Studies and representatives of the K-State Women's Center presented Purple Cried, a one-hour reading of narratives written by K-State students who have suffered sexual assault or rape.

Ashley Eller, freshman in biology and one of the organizers for the event, hoped the readings would raise awareness of the prevalence of sexual assault.

"All of us wanted to work with the Women's Center because we feel strongly about promoting how common this crime is," Eller said. "It's often swept under the rug, but it actually happens."

Eller and a group of students from the School of Leadership Studies read true stories of sexual assault, with hopes that first-person accounts of rape would be more persuasive than fact sheets and fliers.

"We put up some fliers, but this was a better way to get the emotion across," Eller said. "Stories written by women of K-State, read by women of K-State — it's more powerful."

Taylor McKinley, freshman in open option and another event organizer, hoped the stories would prevent women from falling into similar situations.

"We felt that this was important to look out for, especially this weekend with Homecoming, a big party weekend," McKinley said. "I hope people are more aware that it does happen here."

According to a survey by the National Institute of Justice, one out of every six American women has been the victim of rape or attempted rape in her lifetime, and college-aged women are four-times more likely to be sexually assaulted than any other age group.

Mary Todd, director of the K-State Women's Center, has seen the effects of sexual assault firsthand, and hopes that Purple Cried and similar events will help people better understand the far-reaching consequences of rape.

"Last year, I worked with three K-Staters who were pregnant from rape," Todd said. "This crime has a ripple effect. It touches husbands, brothers and fathers who feel they should have protected the victim. There are health ripple effects, people taking medicines to keep diseases from latching on. All the things the woman goes through, the mom and dad go through, the brothers and sisters go through — it's an incredibly invasive crime."

http://www.kstatecollegian.com/news/stories-of-sexually-assaulted-students-read-aloud-1.2382484
Arella Mae
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 05:31 pm
@firefly,
Who better to tell others how they may be able to avoid a crime than the victim of a crime? I think that is an excellent idea. Rape used to be totally hush hush, thankfully, that is becoming a thing of the past. Hopefully, with the continued efforts of everyone, that will change.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 06:23 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Who better to tell others how they may be able to avoid a crime than the victim of a crime?


There is a little lack of logic here as the best ones I would assume to tell others how to avoid being rape are the women who had avoid being rape not the ones who sadly had been rape.
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 06:44 pm
@Arella Mae,
And being able to offer hope to others is also very important.

Quote:
Two-time rape survivor shows others how to cope
By DONNA KOEHN | [email protected]
October 25, 2010

If someone had told Marilyn Bray several years ago that she would be speaking about her devastating sexual assault before a crowd â using humor, no less -- she would have considered it a sick joke.

But Friday night, Bray and about 20 other survivors and professional performers will take the stage at Sacred Grounds Coffeehouse in Tampa to present "Voices of Strength: Night of Expression," featuring dance, poetry, dramatic readings, original songs and comedy. For many of the men and women, it's the first time they publicly have acknowledged a past sexual assault.

"So often, rape survivors are stuck in that pain, and that is how we are portrayed in the media," says Bray, 28. "But people really do find that healing. This performance will give survivors the opportunity to further their journey in a positive way. We're focusing on the transformation that occurs through healing."

When Bray was raped at age 19, she didn't tell her closest friends at the University of Tampa. At a bar with friends the summer after her freshman year, Bray met an older man who drugged her without their knowledge. When he offered to take her home, her friends, grateful for his help, gave him her address. He raped her in her childhood bedroom at her parents' house in Detroit. "It was a sense of my world closing in," she says. "I had tunnel vision, like being in a nightmare where you can't move. The next afternoon, I came to, battered and bruised and sore."

Her parents took her to the emergency room, where she had a seven-hour wait. She recalls feeling dirty and shameful as she discussed details of the assault with a police officer in the middle of the busy ER. Finally, she learned the hospital didn't have a rape kit and she would have to go to elsewhere.

Even though she identified the man in a line-up, the police told her they couldn't charge him because she had been too drugged to know what she said to him before the rape.

"All of that kept me silent and in pain," she says. "I couldn't sleep, I had PTSD, I was constantly afraid of men. I was an empty shell."

She remained that way through her graduation from UT.

In 2004, she again was attacked.

"It's every survivor's worst nightmare," she says. "It was a neighbor who hid in my apartment. I disassociated at the time. My boyfriend came in and stopped it. My apartment was destroyed.

"I remember beating my head against the hardwood floor. I realized I had two options. One was that I didn't go on living. The other was to get help."

She chose the latter, and ended up at the Crisis Center of Tampa Bay, which is where rape victims in Hillsborough County are taken for testing and counseling.

"I was greeted by a nurse with very kind eyes, who was so gentle," she recalls. "My boyfriend was counseled by a volunteer about what he could expect, because he was traumatized, too. It didn't look like a hospital, either. It had butterflies on the wall and everyone was so kind."

The idea for "Voices of Strength" arose when Bray, volunteer chairwoman of the Sexual Violence Task Force of Tampa Bay, and other survivors participated in "Take Back the Night," an anti-crime rally in April.

Several of the participants said it was the first time they had spoken about their attacks. At first, "Voices of Strength" was planned as a poetry reading, but "it exploded," Bray says.

Professional performers from Silver Glass Productions volunteered to help.

Bray, who now works as development coordinator for the Crisis Center, also has established a group for men interested in helping stem violence against women.

"The premise there is that men should be accountable for societal issues of violence, not just women," she says. The group includes lawyers, men who work for non-profit organizations, and those who know a sexual abuse survivor.

Meetings are open to the public. "Sexual Violence 101," a free training workshop, will be noon to 3 p.m. Nov. 9 at the Crisis Center, One Crisis Center Plaza, in Tampa.

Admission to Friday's performance of "Voices of Strength" is free, but organizers ask for donations of new, loose-fitting clothing. Often, those who have been attacked have to give police all of their clothing as evidence. At that point, they don't want to put on someone else's used clothes, Bray says.

Bray now discusses her attacks at national forums, something the long-ago traumatized 19-year-old would have thought impossible. It isn't easy, but speaking out helps show others there is hope. She says she was saved by the rape support group at the Crisis Center.

"I saw women who were empowered," she says. "They taught me how to work through it, that there really was life after the assault; that survivors don't have to suffer forever."
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/oct/25/rape-survivor-no-longer-a-victim/news-breaking/
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 06:50 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

There is a little lack of logic here as the best ones I would assume to tell others how to avoid being rape are the women who had avoid being rape not the ones who sadly had been rape.
as well the ones who are most likely to feel that they have been transgressed upon on are the thin skin easily offended types, as in not exactly emotionally healthy in the first place. Or maybe they are the victim type, as we know that often the same people are victimized over and over again...the fact that they never get to where they refuse to be victims tells me that on some level they need to be victims (dirrtydozen22 is an example of this type). These are not the people we should want to be deciding sexual law and policy for the rest of us. So long as the rape feminists hold to this policy that all claims made by women against men of sexual transgression must be accepted as truth without question putting together a panel of the raped with the purpose of directing future collective action is a foolish move.
Arella Mae
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 07:04 pm
@firefly,
I know people will look at rape survivors, recovered alcoholics, etc. strangely when they hear things like "everything that has happened to me has got me where I am today." Technically, it's true. Once you are well on the way to recovery your life becomes better than it had been and you are stronger. Of course, no one wants to be an alcoholic or be raped or have any tragedy touch their lives. But it is such an encouraging message when a person can really understand what a survivor means by that statement.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 07:18 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye take a look at this website http://www.svtftampabay.com/ and then tell me that there is not big big big money behind this movement from somewhere.

hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 07:25 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Hawkeye take a look at this website http://www.svtftampabay.com/ and then tell me that there is not big big big money behind this movement from somewhere
we have already talked about this, the rape scare is funded by the Violence against women act..just as any government agency will always work to secure more funding by exaggerating the value of the work they do the rape feminist secure funding by perpetuating this fraud that there is a rape crisis which needs their intervention.
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 26 Oct, 2010 07:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
It would be interesting to know just how must money is going to this one outfit for example of government funding.

Second, how in the hell Hawkeye can the Federal government allows an organization that they are funding to lobby a state government over it laws?

Seem on it face a clear violation of the separation between states governments and the Federal government.
0 Replies
 
 

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