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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 04:26 pm
@Arella Mae,
I agree. She is doing wonderful work, both as an actress, and with her foundation.

Don't know if you saw last night's SVU episode, but Olivia/Mariska delivered the line, "All reports of rape are to be believed" with such force you just knew she meant it--and was sending that message to everyone watching. After being immersed in this thread, I almost cheered out loud when she said it. Doing this thread, and listening to what you and others have said, has really opened my eyes to the problem in a whole different way. I really have to thank you.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 04:38 pm
Quote:

The New York Times
April 30, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist

Is Rape Serious?
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

When a woman reports a rape, her body is a crime scene. She is typically asked to undress over a large sheet of white paper to collect hairs or fibers, and then her body is examined with an ultraviolet light, photographed and thoroughly swabbed for the rapist’s DNA.

It’s a grueling and invasive process that can last four to six hours and produces a “rape kit” — which, it turns out, often sits around for months or years, unopened and untested.

Stunningly often, the rape kit isn’t tested at all because it’s not deemed a priority. If it is tested, this happens at such a lackadaisical pace that it may be a year or more before there are results (if expedited, results are technically possible in a week).

So while we have breakthrough DNA technologies to find culprits and exculpate innocent suspects, we aren’t using them properly — and those who work in this field believe the reason is an underlying doubt about the seriousness of some rape cases. In short, this isn’t justice; it’s indifference.

Solomon Moore, a colleague of mine at The Times, last year wrote about a 43-year-old legal secretary who was raped repeatedly in her home in Los Angeles as her son slept in another room. The attacker forced the woman to clean herself in an attempt to destroy the evidence.

Tim Marcia, the detective on the case, thought this meant that the perpetrator was a habitual offender who would strike again. Mr. Marcia rushed the rape kit to the crime lab but was told to expect a delay of more than one year.

So Mr. Marcia personally drove the kit 350 miles to deliver it to the state lab in Sacramento. Even there, the backlog resulted in a four-month delay — but then it produced a “cold hit,” a match in a database of the DNA of previous offenders.

Yet in the months while the rape kit sat on a shelf, the suspect had allegedly struck twice more. Police said he broke into the homes of a pregnant woman and a 17-year-old girl, sexually assaulting each of them.

“The criminal justice system is still ill equipped to deal with rape and not that good at moving rape cases forward,” notes Sarah Tofte, who just wrote a devastating report for Human Rights Watch about the rape-kit backlog. The report found that in Los Angeles County, there were at last count 12,669 rape kits sitting in police storage facilities. More than 450 of these kits had sat around for more than 10 years, and in many cases, the statute of limitations had expired.

There are no good national figures, and one measure of the indifference is that no one even bothers to count the number of rape kits sitting around untested.

Why don’t police departments treat rape kits with urgency? One reason is probably expense — each kit can cost up to $1,500 to test — but there also seems to be a broad distaste for rape cases as murky, ambiguous and difficult to prosecute, particularly when they involve (as they often do) alcohol or acquaintance rape.

“They talk about the victims’ credibility in a way that they don’t talk about the credibility of victims of other crimes,” Ms. Tofte said.

Charlie Beck, a deputy police chief of Los Angeles, said that there was no excuse for the failure to test rape kits, but he noted that integrating a new technology into police work is complex and involves a learning curve. Since Human Rights Watch began its investigation, he said, the department had resolved to test rape kits routinely — and as a result, cold hits have doubled.

While the backlog and desultory handling of rape kits are nationwide problems, there is one shining exception: New York City has made a concerted effort over the last decade to test every kit that comes in. The result has been at least 2,000 cold hits in rape cases, and the arrest rate for reported cases of rape in New York City rose from 40 percent to 70 percent, according to Human Rights Watch.

Some Americans used to argue that it was impossible to rape an unwilling woman. Few people say that today, or say publicly that a woman “asked for it” if she wore a short skirt. But the refusal to test rape kits seems a throwback to the same antediluvian skepticism about rape as a traumatic crime.

“If you’ve got stacks of physical evidence of a crime, and you’re not doing everything you can with the evidence, then you must be making a decision that this isn’t a very serious crime,” notes Polly Poskin, executive director of the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault.

It’s what we might expect in Afghanistan, not in the United States.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/30/opinion/30kristof.html?_r=1

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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 05:46 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

I agree. She is doing wonderful work, both as an actress, and with her foundation.

Don't know if you saw last night's SVU episode, but Olivia/Mariska delivered the line, "All reports of rape are to be believed" with such force you just knew she meant it--and was sending that message to everyone watching. After being immersed in this thread, I almost cheered out loud when she said it. Doing this thread, and listening to what you and others have said, has really opened my eyes to the problem in a whole different way. I really have to thank you.
It's me that should be thanking you. You have posted so much information that has been so eye opening and informative. You know, this is really the first time I've really been in such an indepth discussion about rape. I've talked about my rape plenty of times but this has been different. It's been very good for me. I didn't see the episode but I can just hear her!

We gotta get them rape kits tested! I know it would cost a lot but how many women would be saved from being raped by getting those animals off the streets?
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hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 06:27 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Zero if we are talking about non-strangers rapes where the ID of the male is known.
did you notice that in all this outrage about untested rape kits that it appears that no one has so much as done a fast computer check to see how many of this kits have the possibility of identifying a possible rapist? Because after the kit was taken the police found out who deposited the DNA, or because the police had already concluded the no rape happened? The rational given by the rape feminists for mandatory testing is not that it will do any good in the cases tested, it is that then the police will take rape more seriously. Are police not taking rape seriously now, because I have not seen any facts presented towards that conclusion. Would spending all this money to do tests where the results don't matter in the case being tested make police take rape more seriously....because I have never seen this argument fleshed out. If we are going to spend $4 billion a decade over current testing bill or what ever it is testing all rape kits I want to know before we put in the order what it is we are buying with our money....which is in short supply.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 08:21 pm
Another rape of a college student...and DNA nailed him...another reason to analyze rape kits quickly.
Quote:

Saint Martin's University rape trial under way
September 30, 2010
OLYMPIA, Wash. —

The trial of a long-haul trucker charged with raping a Saint Martin's University student is under way in Olympia.

The 52-year-old Richard Duane Bunch already has been sentenced to more than 10 years in prison for raping a disabled girl in Nevada.

The Olympian reports Bunch was arrested in August 2008 in the Nevada case. His DNA matched evidence from the April 2008 assault on a 20-year-old woman walking in a wooded area near the university campus in Lacey.

Bunch also has been accused of raping a 9-year-old girl in Ellensburg.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013037405_apwasaintmartinsrape.html
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 08:23 pm
@firefly,
Gee. what a guy! Raping a disabled person. Sick and evil.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 10:32 pm
I've been upset by all the current political candidates who oppose abortion even in cases of rape or incest. Now I've come across a view at the opposite extreme, and this is one of the most outrageous suggestions I've ever heard. This woman thinks that women who become pregnant by rape or incest should be required by law to receive an abortion. Doesn't anyone believe in a woman's right to control her body any more? Some women might not want to abort in such circumstances, but others might. All women deserve that choice.
Quote:

Eliminate rape, incest aftermath through abortions
By Alaina Allred
Wednesday, September 29, 2010

Abortion is a topic that has been debated to death in our country, but I'm here to propose a different solution regarding women who become pregnant without a choice.

Women who become pregnant by rape or incest should be required by law to receive an abortion.

How can a person who believes in religion expect someone who doesn't believe in a higher being to change his or her opinion, or vice versa? That's where I'd like to butt in. I'm no radical. I don't affiliate myself with any religion, but I don't refer to myself as an atheist or even an agnostic.

The number of women who become pregnant as a result of rape is small. In an article written for the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, along with estimates from the U.S. Census, available at medhelp.org/nihlib/GF-617.html, rape-related pregnancies of American women over the age of 18 are estimated to be more than 32,000. These statistics do not include those women who don't notify proper authorities. According to rainn.org, 60 percent of rapes and sexual assaults over the last five years were never reported to the police.

Although these numbers aren't large, they are still important. Every year babies are born due to an awful, traumatic incident. These babies grow up to be children and are attached with the social stigmas associated with rape. A child born of rape is created out of fear, force and brutality. This should not be allowed to happen.

To me, having a child is something that should be both planned and wanted. Why would someone bring a child into the world if it was unwanted? Why should that child have to live his or her life knowing he or she was created from such a horrible crime? Aside from psychological issues that child may endure rejection and a lack of proper care from the mother, the victim of the rape. A woman who keeps a child as a result of rape may harbor feelings of anger and guilt toward the child. The child would be a constant reminder to her of just how horrible the human race can be.

That is precisely why the embryo should never be able to develop that far. According to tandurust.com, organogenesis of a developing fetus is completed by the third month of pregnancy. Before then the fetus is small and undeveloped, making an abortion safer and less complicated. Most abortions in the United States are performed before or in the beginning of the second trimester of pregnancy.

If a woman was tested for pregnancy after the rape occurred, the embryo would never have to become a fetus. An embryo is not known, it is not named, or seen or heard from. It is group of cells living inside a woman's uterus. If this group of cells is allowed to grow into a full-fledged human being he or she would always carry the shame of knowing how he or she was created. Why subject someone to that type of torture?

After a woman is raped, there should be a certain series of precautions that should be taken. After a rape kit, which should be mandatory after all instances, is performed on the woman, she should enter counseling. Counseling would help the woman cope with the traumatic experience. There should also be follow up sessions with the woman in which a pregnancy test would be given. If the woman is pregnant, then the embryo should be aborted at a time suitable for both the doctor and the woman.

Not allowing the woman to have to choose whether or not the result of the rape to live would eliminate a difficult decision on her part. She would not have to weigh the issues, think about a child, or worry about how that child would be viewed in the world. After enduring an already difficult and traumatic experience, why make the victim suffer another?

Rape and incest occur in this country more often than they should. These types of crimes should never happen. Because it is unstoppable, the government should try to eliminate as much hardship and pain as possible. Requiring a woman to receive an abortion if she becomes pregnant because of rape or incest would take the thought of this often difficult decision off her already traumatized mind.
http://www.dixiesunlink.com/opinion/eliminate-rape-incest-aftermath-through-abortions-1.1653825
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 10:35 pm
I haven't read all the last posts re rape announced in the press recently.

Is this a campaign?

0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 10:40 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
We gotta get them rape kits tested! I know it would cost a lot but how many women would be saved from being raped by getting those animals off the streets?


Of course, there is the flip side to that question also.

How many men convicted of rape would be cleared if those kits are tested??
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 10:48 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
We gotta get them rape kits tested! I know it would cost a lot but how many women would be saved from being raped by getting those animals off the streets?


Of course, there is the flip side to that question also.

How many men convicted of rape would be cleared if those kits are tested??
Likely none. In what scenario do you see that happening?
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 10:54 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
How many men convicted of rape would be cleared if those kits are tested??

Actually, I don't think any, because these days I don't think a D.A. would take a case to trial without the DNA evidence.

What it would do is keep an innocent man from even going to trial. If the police picked up someone based on a description, or a woman misidentified someone from photos, and they made an arrest, if they got the DNA back, and it didn't match, they would release the man, he'd never go to trial.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 11:01 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Its happened before.
Men that have been convicted of rape are cleared and freed from prison after DNA evidence is tested and shows that they are not the rapist.

Some examples...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012359769_apwawronglyconvicted1stldwritethru.html

http://truthinjustice.org/2newdna.htm

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/oct/18/nation/na-pardons18

If a rape kit is not tested, and the police rely on a womans recollection to convict someone, then there is an injustice committed on the man convicted, isnt there?

Maybe a rape kit being tested could clear him.
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 11:03 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
How many men convicted of rape would be cleared if those kits are tested??

Actually, I don't think many, because these days I don't think a D.A. would take a case to trial without the DNA evidence.
That's not true. Even the D.A.'s experts will switch from the zillion to 1 we got the wrong guy mantra, to "there's nothing unusual about not finding DNA; the real world isn't like you see on t.v." mantra... and they're probably right both ways. Think of it as a fingerprint in that if you have one that's pretty damned solid… but a perp in gloves doesn't leave any... and that doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't there.
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 11:07 pm
@mysteryman,
Yes, I'm very familiar with some of the Innocent Project's work... but I don't see how the untested rape kits would result in an innocent man being freed. I seriously doubt there's many, if any, convicted rapists who could be exonerated by testing an old rape kit. Paint me a scenario where it wouldn’t have been tested already.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 11:08 pm
Another college student raped...
Quote:

Student Raped At CSCC;
By Tom Brockman
Published: September 30, 2010

A student at Columbus State Community College is recovering after she says she was raped Thursday morning.

It happened in a restroom on the first floor of Nestor Hall and prompted the college to send an alert to thousands of students.

When Areya Brister and a friend went inside the restroom around 7 am, they had no clue what they were about to find. “We walk into this bathroom and as we walk in, we hear somebody sobbing horribly and we just looked at each other like it's none of our business,” said Brister. “Then we're sitting there and fixing our hair in the mirror and all of the sudden, the stall door opens and a guy walks out and he just walks out of the stall casually like nothing happened.”

Once the man left the bathroom, she says “The girl that was in the stall points to him and she's sobbing her eyes out,” said Brister. “She was shaking. I was shaking and it didn't even happen to me.”

She says her friend ran after the man. “She was like, 'what did you do to her?' and I couldn't hear the reply, but it sounded like he said 'I didn't do nothing' leave me alone.”

Areya then made a 911 call to campus security. In the call, she told the dispatcher, “All of the sudden this dude opened up the door and he ran out and the girl was crying and we asked her what was wrong and she said he just raped her."

“We never go into that bathroom and if we wouldn't have went in there (thursday,) who knows what would have happened."

That isn't the only "what if" question she's asking. “That could have been me. If I would have went into that bathroom, if I would have gotten there ten minutes earlier, that would have been me going into that bathroom, that could have happened to me."
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2010/sep/30/student-raped-cscc-witness-speaks-nbc-4-ar-245869/

The incident was especially horrific for student Leah Botkins who returned to Columbus State seven years after a similar ordeal.

"I was raped seven years ago by a classmate's friend the night before finals and I had to put off my final and everything and never wanted to come back to campus again. That girl's probably going through hell right now, (thinking) maybe you brought it on yourself, maybe you did something to cause this. That's the way our system has gone wrong," Botkins said.
http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2010/sep/30/15/student-raped-restroom-columbus-state-campus-ar-245382/

Columbus police arrested a man last night in connection with the rape of a Columbus State Community College student and say he confessed to the attack.

Taj Wedderburn, 26, who police say is homeless, was picked up at 7:30 p.m. at the Fashion Bug at 3849 S. High St.

Customers in the store told police that he had been making comments and laughing about the rape in a bathroom on the Columbus State campus yesterday morning, Sgt. Terry McConnell of the sexual-abuse squad said. Wedderburn also reportedly was giving specifics about the attack that hadn't been made public.

Wedderburn was brought in on outstanding traffic warrants from a neighboring county and interviewed at police headquarters last night, McConnell said. The sergeant said he confessed to the rape at that time.
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/09/30/rape-reported-at-columbus-state.html?sid=101
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Sep, 2010 11:34 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
These days, I don't think a defense attorney would allow a case to go to trial without having the rape kit analyzed, because you can't withhold potentially exonerating evidence. It's very unlikely, that when you have a rape kit, with DNA evidence, that it wouldn't be analyzed before the case went to trial--it's hard enough to get rape convictions with DNA, and no D.A. could ethically just ignore the DNA from the rape kit, it's part of the evidence, a very important part, it identifies the rapist, so they'd have to have it analyzed.

That's what got the Duke lacrosse players exonerated--their DNA didn't match the rape kit. In that case, the D.A, did try to withhold exonerating evidence and he was disbarred. And it happened before the case went to trial.
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