The Crusades

How long did the Moors remain in conquest of Spain vs. the length of time of any conquest of the Mid-east by the Christians?

How much of Coastal Africa was also conquered, as well as Spain?

How many Muslim people were sold into slavery by the Christian invaders vs. the amount of Christians sold into slavery by Muslim traders?

Please understand. I am in no way defending the actions of the crusaders. I am pointing out what I see as the fact that their wrongs are loudly and oft pointed out while the wrongs of others are generally not. As such, I am just desiring what I see as appropriate context.

There is enough blame to go around. Neither side is that innocent and neither side is that much more guilty than the other that its atrocities should be pointed out to the exclusion of the others.

or more annoyingly, missionaries.

I know this may surprise some people on this site but i have several friends who go on missionary trips, fortunately they aren't the kind that tell Africans to not use contraceptives. :thumbup:

They go to build houses for the homeless which is applaudable.

Well then, I shall have to be more precise in my diction: those who, as a profession or an excursion, pursue with zeal proselytizing.

yes.There were at least 9 crusades! How many times did the moors invade spain? Also the scale of the crusades were much greater than the moorish (Islamic) conquest of southern spain.

Well then, I shall have to be more precise in my diction: those who, as a profession or an excursion, pursue with zeal proselytizing.

There were seven Christian Crusades.

wrong.

As you said in another thread. It's all a matter of perception.

Math is not up for debate.

Oh come on, using calculus you can make anything equal anything else.

The longer you hold off that you were wrong the less credibility you will have, so continue this little tirade of denial. Just shows you can't accept it when you're wrong.

I don't have time to do the research to arrive at a definitive answer that might of might not match yours. Since I've made that choice, I'll accept your count. However, the fact is the Crusades were defensive and were of a lesser geographic and coersive extent than the slaughter that preceded them coming from the Islamic world.

I can accept when I'm wrong and I take responsibility for my choice and action. Do you?

There is still hope for you yet.

And yes I do take responsibility for my choices and actions, I do admit when I am wrong but not as often as I should.


But I will say this, 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Now who's quoting aphorisms?

Is self-defense wrong?

No, self-preservation is not immoral, it is intended.

Then why do you say two wrongs don't make a right? By making this parallel you are saying that self defense in the form of the military action by western civilization was wrong.

Self-defense is neither wrong nor right. Nor was the crusade "self-defense", in what way is raping and killing civilian populations considered "self-defense"? In what way is the conquest of desired lands considered "self-defense"?

Retaliation is not self-defense.

Stop being a hypocrite. The lands Islam had were torn from the Christian world.

It always amazes me when someone who says there are no rules, quotes rules, or is surprised when someone who believes in a set of rules decides to revert to an older set of rules like an eye for an eye. Response to aggression is not retaliation it is defense.

You are too steeped in the androgynous teachings of politically correct societal groups to be objective if you believe response to aggression is retaliation.

When someone attacks you, the only choices you have are to respond or accept their will. Accepting their will usually means you become slaves to their society or their sovereign.

retaliation - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionarydefense - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

When one leaves their own borders, it is no longer "self-defense".

Again, leaving your borders after the fact, to invade another nation is not self-defense, no matter how you try to justify it.