2
   

Do we really have a choice?

 
 
DiversityDriven
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 09:01 pm
@Numpty,
Numpty;53812 wrote:
Hmmmm, you know at first I was some what offended and ready to come here and flame ur ass, I then thought about your comments and decided to respond in more dignified and respectful manner than you are able to muster.

You my friend live in the past, are afraid of change and have an inability to connect with cultures outside your own understanding. The country I live in at one point 300 years or so ago was the foundations of your nation.

however the country of America was formed and a fledgling nation took shape it's inhabitants and descendants of mainly British families, so it continued until the 19th centuary, the nation of America offered land, freedom, hope and a sense of a new generation in the the world of the time. many from all over the world flocked to this unique and thriving land. opportunity was laid before all, just the guile, eloquence and hard work of the individual would allow a person to make their fortune. In flocked English, Irish, Scotish, Italians, French, Chinese, Australian, every nation of the world looked upon America as the last bastion of Freedom and opportunity all Immigrants of different religions, creeds and ideas, togather as one forging a new nation, a place to call home, safe from persecution, fear and death.

You forget your history, but are quick to judge mine. Granted we have an influx of foreign nationals that seems almost apocoliptic ( it really isn't), was America so different all that time ago? We have muslims, big deal, 10 years ago it wasn't even an issue, too much 'fox news' has poisoned your brain.

Though 32 years of age I have had the opportunity to visit, Germany, Cyprus, Turkey (muslim nation) Greece, Spain, Denmark Austria and your county of America experiancing all types of cultures and daily life. Have you travelled outside of America and experienced diverse cultures?

My point is you have forgotten your country was made, yes made by immigrants, religion excluded, your founding farhters wanted a secular society, religion seprate from government. You just don't see it, you are not the origianl inhabitants of your country, you and all your ancestors are immigrants and your religion completely alien to it's indigenous people. So much of what you hate is in actual fact what your are to the native Americans and what your fore Farthers stood for.

Crawl back under your rock and come out when you can engage society in a positive and constructive way, you really are begining to bore me now.

Quote:
Hmmmm, you know at first I was some what offended and ready to come here and flame ur ass, I then thought about your comments and decided to respond in more dignified and respectful manner than you are able to muster.
Your really think alot of your self huh? It's funny you include dignified and respectful and in the same sentence include your first cheap shot? So much for dignified.
Quote:
You my friend live in the past, are afraid of change and have an inability to connect with cultures outside your own understanding.
What qualifications do you have to make this assumption? What culture would you say is prodominant where Pino is? Also, this included your second cheap shot, what happened to being respectful?
Quote:
Though 32 years of age I have had the opportunity to visit, Germany, Cyprus, Turkey (muslim nation) Greece, Spain, Denmark Austria and your county of America experiancing all types of cultures and daily life. Have you travelled outside of America and experienced diverse cultures?
If i'm correct, pino is x military. They tend to travel a bit. Sometimes to save the ass's of countrys such as yourself. We do this mind even knowing the fact that we personally had to kick your ass to get our freedom. Pretty nice of us huh? On the note of cultures, how many would you say lie within the borders of the US? I'm sure way more then your country. Probable more then Europe? Your statement seems a little arrogant to me and falls a little short on divercity?
Quote:
My point is you have forgotten your country was made, yes made by immigrants, religion excluded, your founding farhters wanted a secular society, religion seprate from government.
We haven't forgotten nothing, walk any American street and it will be teaming with divercity. On the note of religion, why do you find in necessary to exclude it, is it because you know most if not all our founding fathers were spiritual? It's strange to me you would require this to continue your statement? On what information are you going by as what our fathers wanted as far as secular society's?
Quote:
You just don't see it,
If you saw it in our Constitution, please post it. You would be the first to find it. Shall i wait long?
Quote:
you are not the origianl inhabitants of your country, you and all your ancestors are immigrants and your religion completely alien to it's indigenous people.
There are not indigenous people here. We all came from somewhere other then this continent. At the earliest over the land bridge is where the native indians came from. My family in 1578 from Spain. Way before any ship landed on Plymouth rock. When Louis and Clark came cross country to the Pacific coast what did they find. Hundred year old Spanish missions.
Quote:
So much of what you hate is in actual fact what your are to the native Americans and what your fore Farthers stood for.
To the victor goes the spoils. I think this applys in your country to? And thinking along your lines shouldn't the native indians hate the english as well, it was white english descendants that were doing that.
Quote:
Crawl back under your rock and come out when you can engage society in a positive and constructive way, you really are begining to bore me now
"dignified and respectful" What a laugh.
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Feb, 2008 09:22 pm
@DiversityDriven,
DiversityDriven;53823 wrote:
Can you name one right we have lost?


right to privacy?
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 10:18 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Insulting:
Quote:
Why? I come here to kick you in the teeth, figuratively speaking. You're not English. You're a vagrant living in my ancestral lands, mucking up what's left of the ancient, noble, heroic society that gave birth to AMERICA.


Considered retorte
Quote:
You my friend live in the past, are afraid of change and have an inability to connect with cultures outside your own understanding. The country I live in at one point 300 years or so ago was the foundations of your nation.


I have seen your posts before, you seem somewhat obsessed by America's involvement in WWII, if you actually bothered to watch the movie in the original post you may well see a plausible argument as to why.

Unfortunately like your friend Mr Pinochet you are here for no other reason than to antagonise the other members of this site.

Quote:
Your really think alot of your self huh? It's funny you include dignified and respectful and in the same sentence include your first cheap shot? So much for dignified.


I said MORE not completey, if you are to highlight, please read what it is you intend to highlight

Quote:

What qualifications do you have to make this assumption? What culture would you say is prodominant where Pino is? Also, this included your second cheap shot, what happened to being respectful?


Quotes from Pino
Quote:

Nah......I just wanna see a blade-weilding Muslim actually fight with it, instead of chopping off the heads of defenseless victims.


Quote:
Throw steel, Sword. C'mon.....throw it, bro. I SAID THROW SOME STEEL ON THAT B.........


Quote:
I call upon Christians everywhere to rally and launch the Crusades, Part II. The Holy Land belongs to Christians, and Islam is a lethal threat we must face and defeat, permanently. Let us stop chasing our tails, intellectually, and bravely march forward to accomplish this sacred mission.

Oh I don't know maybe it's just that he is misunderstood.

Quote:
If i'm correct, pino is x military. They tend to travel a bit. Sometimes to save the ass's of countrys such as yourself. We do this mind even knowing the fact that we personally had to kick your ass to get our freedom. Pretty nice of us huh? On the note of cultures, how many would you say lie within the borders of the US? I'm sure way more then your country. Probable more then Europe? Your statement seems a little arrogant to me and falls a little short on divercity?


You wrote this with a straight face right? You do know where Europe is right?
47 countries in Europe, each one with it's own individual culture and sub culture of immigrants map of europe and maps of european countries landforms rivers and information pages

Population of Europe 729,578,980 Europe - MSN Encarta

Oh my dad was in the forces for 22 years I have spent my fair share of time travelling and living in fear of terroists, we had the IRA for 30 years before Osama's mob

Quote:
We haven't forgotten nothing, walk any American street and it will be teaming with divercity. On the note of religion, why do you find in necessary to exclude it, is it because you know most if not all our founding fathers were spiritual? It's strange to me you would require this to continue your statement? On what information are you going by as what our fathers wanted as far as secular society's?


I wasn't refering to America's lack of diversity, more Pino's inability to accept it. Did you read my post, here let me show you a quote from it

Quote:
many from all over the world flocked to this unique and thriving land. opportunity was laid before all, just the guile, eloquence and hard work of the individual would allow a person to make their fortune. In flocked English, Irish, Scotish, Italians, French, Chinese, Australian, every nation of the world looked upon America as the last bastion of Freedom


I wrote that about your country, do you consider this an insult?
I am no religion lover, I have a habit of doing that from time to time.

Quote:
There are not indigenous people here. We all came from somewhere other then this continent. At the earliest over the land bridge is where the native indians came from. My family in 1578 from Spain. Way before any ship landed on Plymouth rock. When Louis and Clark came cross country to the Pacific coast what did they find. Hundred year old Spanish missions.


It all becomes clear, still smarting from Sir Francis Drake kicking your ancestors Armarda into touch all those years ago huh?

Little history lesson for you may boy: http://www.schoolhistory.co.uk/year8links/natives/indigenous.pdf

They were there 30,000 years before you came along, I would consider that to be indigenous, no? Oh and you can fill in the questions at the bottom, help your learning a bit, no need to thank me, all part of the service.

Quote:
To the victor goes the spoils. I think this applys in your country to? And thinking along your lines shouldn't the native indians hate the english as well, it was white english descendants that were doing that.


They probably do, but they do love cricket too. Yes and we no longer persecute those people and have accepted them into our culture, you know the single most popular food in Britian a 'good ole Indian curry' loverly.

Regards

Numpty
0 Replies
 
Pinochet73
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 08:15 pm
@Numpty,
Numpty;53812 wrote:
Hmmmm, you know at first I was some what offended and ready to come here and flame ur ass, I then thought about your comments and decided to respond in more dignified and respectful manner than you are able to muster.

You my friend live in the past, are afraid of change and have an inability to connect with cultures outside your own understanding. The country I live in at one point 300 years or so ago was the foundations of your nation.

however the country of America was formed and a fledgling nation took shape it's inhabitants and descendants of mainly British families, so it continued until the 19th centuary, the nation of America offered land, freedom, hope and a sense of a new generation in the the world of the time. many from all over the world flocked to this unique and thriving land. opportunity was laid before all, just the guile, eloquence and hard work of the individual would allow a person to make their fortune. In flocked English, Irish, Scotish, Italians, French, Chinese, Australian, every nation of the world looked upon America as the last bastion of Freedom and opportunity all Immigrants of different religions, creeds and ideas, togather as one forging a new nation, a place to call home, safe from persecution, fear and death.

You forget your history, but are quick to judge mine. Granted we have an influx of foreign nationals that seems almost apocoliptic ( it really isn't), was America so different all that time ago? We have muslims, big deal, 10 years ago it wasn't even an issue, too much 'fox news' has poisoned your brain.

Though 32 years of age I have had the opportunity to visit, Germany, Cyprus, Turkey (muslim nation) Greece, Spain, Denmark Austria and your county of America experiancing all types of cultures and daily life. Have you travelled outside of America and experienced diverse cultures?

My point is you have forgotten your country was made, yes made by immigrants, religion excluded, your founding farhters wanted a secular society, religion seprate from government. You just don't see it, you are not the origianl inhabitants of your country, you and all your ancestors are immigrants and your religion completely alien to it's indigenous people. So much of what you hate is in actual fact what your are to the native Americans and what your fore Farthers stood for.

Crawl back under your rock and come out when you can engage society in a positive and constructive way, you really are begining to bore me now.


Just bring it, Little Man. Bring it. I'm sick of you taking up space in MY ANCESTRAL COUNTRY. If you're gonna give it all away, move your happy butt to Haiti or some other dive. THAT you can give away, if you can find someone who wants it. MY CRIB, YA CAN'T. I AM A PROUD EUROPEAN CHRISTIAN MAN. Get off my property, Muhammad, and take your Commie cell-mate, Scooby, with you.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 08:51 am
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;53930 wrote:
Just bring it, Little Man. Bring it. I'm sick of you taking up space in MY ANCESTRAL COUNTRY. If you're gonna give it all away, move your happy butt to Haiti or some other dive. THAT you can give away, if you can find someone who wants it. MY CRIB, YA CAN'T. I AM A PROUD EUROPEAN CHRISTIAN MAN. Get off my property, Muhammad, and take your Commie cell-mate, Scooby, with you.



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Is that it?

Geez, next time can you at least make an effort. :beat:
0 Replies
 
scooby-doo cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 04:52 pm
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;53930 wrote:
Just bring it, Little Man. Bring it. I'm sick of you taking up space in MY ANCESTRAL COUNTRY. If you're gonna give it all away, move your happy butt to Haiti or some other dive. THAT you can give away, if you can find someone who wants it. MY CRIB, YA CAN'T. I AM A PROUD EUROPEAN CHRISTIAN MAN. Get off my property, Muhammad, and take your Commie cell-mate, Scooby, with you.


PMSL your nuts pino Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Feb, 2008 07:59 pm
@Numpty,
Quote:
Quotes from Pino


WTF, those are from weeks ago, do you copy and paste quotes yout think will be useful? You've got a lot of time on your hands.

Quote:
You wrote this with a straight face right? You do know where Europe is right?
47 countries in Europe, each one with it's own individual culture and sub culture of immigrants map of europe and maps of european countries landforms rivers and information pages

Population of Europe 729,578,980 Europe - MSN Encarta

Oh my dad was in the forces for 22 years I have spent my fair share of time travelling and living in fear of terroists, we had the IRA for 30 years before Osama's mob


Many of those cultures + many others are represented in America in at least some derivative form.

Bet you didn't sympathize with the IRA nearly as much as you sympathize with the Muslim extremists.

Quote:
Little history lesson for you may boy: 404 Not found


LOL, factual error halfway into the first paragraph, "They were called Indians even though they didn't come from India!"
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 07:41 am
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;53982 wrote:
"They were called Indians even though they didn't come from India!"


Straight Dope Staff Report: Does "Indian" derive from Columbus's description of Native Americans as "una gente in Dios"?
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 09:41 am
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;53982 wrote:
WTF, those are from weeks ago, do you copy and paste quotes yout think will be useful? You've got a lot of time on your hands.



Many of those cultures + many others are represented in America in at least some derivative form.

Bet you didn't sympathize with the IRA nearly as much as you sympathize with the Muslim extremists.



LOL, factual error halfway into the first paragraph, "They were called Indians even though they didn't come from India!"


Why do you think I sympathise with Muslim Extremists? Really, why?

Any asshole who thinks its a good idead to kill and maim innoccents deserves nothing less than the cruelty they inflict IMO.

OH and I didn't sympathise with the IRA in the least too, many people I know were killed or had friends and relatives killed by them. I am however able to understand that someone being Irish does not make them an IRA terrorist.

Europes population is double Americas, each country is diverse with buildings up to a 1000 years old still in use, 3 times longer than America has been an independant nation.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 04:00 pm
@Sabz5150,


But still, he didn't think he was in "India" in the modern sense of the word, which was what the article was probably referring to.
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 04:06 pm
@Numpty,
Quote:
OH and I didn't sympathise with the IRA in the least too, many people I know were killed or had friends and relatives killed by them. I am however able to understand that someone being Irish does not make them an IRA terrorist.


But did you ever stop to consider the reasons why the IRA was doing what they did? Did you ever think of what happened to them that drove them to do what they did (quite a bit, really)? They would call you guys the terrorists.

Ever try to answer the same questions in relation to Muslim extremists?
scooby-doo cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 05:08 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;54027 wrote:
But did you ever stop to consider the reasons why the IRA was doing what they did? Did you ever think of what happened to them that drove them to do what they did (quite a bit, really)? They would call you guys the terrorists.

Ever try to answer the same questions in relation to Muslim extremists?


I sympathised with the Irish republican cause,bacause i believe in a United Ireland,and although i hate radical islam,i can understand islamic terrorism to a point,the Middle-east was carved up by the British and French after WW1,they drew up the borders they picked who they wanted in charge,so it was only natural they felt hard done by,and even after WW2 the west has been meddling in the middle -east,we have backed dictators overthrown governments when it suited us.
0 Replies
 
DiversityDriven
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Feb, 2008 09:55 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;53839 wrote:
right to privacy?


Show me that right in the Constitution?
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2008 06:40 am
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;54026 wrote:
But still, he didn't think he was in "India" in the modern sense of the word, which was what the article was probably referring to.


Either or, I posted that up just as straight clarification for all sides. That's why I didn't argue it.
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Feb, 2008 06:46 am
@DiversityDriven,
DiversityDriven;54040 wrote:
Show me that right in the Constitution?


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

That means, unless you have a warrant, I don't have to let you in my home or let you see anything I own, use or do. If you do have a warrant, you need to tell me what you're looking for and where you're looking for it, along with a damn good reason why.

This ensures privacy. The gov't can't go snooping through your stuff (this includes communications and communications devices... i.e. effects) unless they have a warrant.

Now do you see why these warrantless wiretaps violate the Constitution?
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 10:41 am
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;54027 wrote:
But did you ever stop to consider the reasons why the IRA was doing what they did? Did you ever think of what happened to them that drove them to do what they did (quite a bit, really)? They would call you guys the terrorists.

Ever try to answer the same questions in relation to Muslim extremists?


Maybe, but we didn't go around dragging men out of their homes and killing them infront of their children, punishment beatings, drug running, racketeering, Arms dealing and generally killing and maiming people in the name of freedom.

The Irish issue was and still is more to do with religion than a united Ireland. The Irish seem to have no problem uniting behind the national Irish Rugby Uninon team.

I hate everything about the IRA, too many people i know and Friends of People I know have been killed an injured by these gangsters possing as freedom fighters. I am however able to recognise and accept the majority of Irish are normal people like me making their way in this world, the same goes with Islamics.

Still not sure why you think I sympathise with Islamic terrorists.
scooby-doo cv
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 02:05 pm
@Numpty,
Numpty;54101 wrote:
Maybe, but we didn't go around dragging men out of their homes and killing them infront of their children, punishment beatings, drug running, racketeering, Arms dealing and generally killing and maiming people in the name of freedom.

The Irish issue was and still is more to do with religion than a united Ireland. The Irish seem to have no problem uniting behind the national Irish Rugby Uninon team.

I hate everything about the IRA, too many people i know and Friends of People I know have been killed an injured by these gangsters possing as freedom fighters. I am however able to recognise and accept the majority of Irish are normal people like me making their way in this world, the same goes with Islamics.

Still not sure why you think I sympathise with Islamic terrorists.


The fact is Northern Ireland was created to placate the minority Protestant Unionist minority in the North of the country,against the wishes of the majority catholic population,you use the Irish rugby team as an example of iirish people as a whole uniting behind their team,but you dont see this in football (soccer),windsor park home of the Northern Ireland football team is a cesspit of bigotry.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 02:25 pm
@scooby-doo cv,
scooby-doo;54107 wrote:
The fact is Northern Ireland was created to placate the minority Protestant Unionist minority in the North of the country,against the wishes of the majority catholic population,you use the Irish rugby team as an example of iirish people as a whole uniting behind their team,but you dont see this in football (soccer),windsor park home of the Northern Ireland football team is a cesspit of bigotry.


Agreed, but it is more to do with religion than unification, do you sympathise with people who murder a baby while it is in the car with its parents? This happend in Germany whilst I was there.

A friend i went to school with, her father was the lucky one when 7 service men where blown up in a mini bus, he 'only' lost his legs the other lost their lives. my cousins best friend was shot dead in front of him on patrol in belfast. My dad did two tours there and had a nervous breakdown after the second one. young kids throwing dummy bombs over the fences. I myself had to go to school under armed guard whilst at school in Germany, told NEVER to pick anything up in case it was a bomb, my dad had to check EVERY single time he got into our car in case there was a bomb planted under it,....and the list goes on.

The Bigotry comes from both sides, make no mistake. But I Have spent time with the Royal Irish Regiment, Absolute scum, these people sing some sick songs for sure.

Have I sympathy for the republican movement,...not really it is more motivated by religion than being united and vice versa with the loyalsts. IMO they are as bad as each other, no defining difference beween them.
scooby-doo cv
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 02:50 pm
@Numpty,
Numpty;54111 wrote:
Agreed, but it is more to do with religion than unification, do you sympathise with people who murder a baby while it is in the car with its parents? This happend in Germany whilst I was there.

A friend i went to school with, her father was the lucky one when 7 service men where blown up in a mini bus, he 'only' lost his legs the other lost their lives. my cousins best friend was shot dead in front of him on patrol in belfast. My dad did two tours there and had a nervous breakdown after the second one. young kids throwing dummy bombs over the fences. I myself had to go to school under armed guard whilst at school in Germany, told NEVER to pick anything up in case it was a bomb, my dad had to check EVERY single time he got into our car in case there was a bomb planted under it,....and the list goes on.

The Bigotry comes from both sides, make no mistake. But I Have spent time with the Royal Irish Regiment, Absolute scum, these people sing some sick songs for sure.

Have I sympathy for the republican movement,...not really it is more motivated by religion than being united and vice versa with the loyalsts. IMO they are as bad as each other, no defining difference beween them.


The nationalist catholic community in Northern Ireland was persecuted and treated like scum,by the Unionist protestant community,so yes i do have strong sympathy with the Repblican movement,they had to put up with the RUC,a protestant police force,with strong links to loyalists.

There is bigotry on both sides,but IMO it is worse from the unionist protestant community.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Mar, 2008 04:38 pm
@scooby-doo cv,
scooby-doo;54112 wrote:
The nationalist catholic community in Northern Ireland was persecuted and treated like scum,by the Unionist protestant community,so yes i do have strong sympathy with the Repblican movement,they had to put up with the RUC,a protestant police force,with strong links to loyalists.

There is bigotry on both sides,but IMO it is worse from the unionist protestant community.


Of that we may agree sir, never the less, murdering peacekeepers, which the British Army were there for and their families was not nescessary, You forget my friend, I lived and breathed this for 20 years. It's very easy to make judgements based on what has been reported.

No doubt both sides are filled with scum, and also filled with decent people, but does your sympathy extend to condoning the killing of British service men, their families and the countless other inoccent victims of the indescriminent killings?

I may have a biased opinion on this, earned I think, but I wish no harm to any law abbiding person.
 

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