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THE US, UN AND IRAQ V

 
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 08:28 am
Re: Israeli experience.
pistoff wrote:
It sure seems to have worked for the Israelis.

What next a huge fence?

Here's an idea. Ask GW to get in touch with God to get more instructions.


Ah----but it's OK for this fanatic to talk to his god and ask for his help in ridding his wonderful sand box of the infidel.

Is that what you're saying PISTOF???????

The following is an excerpt from bin Laden's declaration of war on the US---see in my long post above that got buried in a storm of Cut and Paste crap. It you people can't write or are too lazy why don't you just lurk on the sidelines.

Praise be to Allah, we seek His help and ask for his pardon. we take refuge in Allah from our wrongs and bad deeds. Who ever been guided by Allah will not be misled, and who ever has been misled, he will never be guided. I bear witness that there is no God except Allah-no associates with Him- and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and messenger.

{O you who believe! be careful of -your duty to- Allah with the proper care which is due to Him, and do not die unless you are Muslim} (Imraan; 3:102), {O people be careful of -your duty to- your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same -kind- and spread from these two, many men and women; and be careful of -your duty to- Allah , by whom you demand one of another -your rights-, and (be careful) to the ties of kinship; surely Allah ever watches over you} (An-Nisa; 4:1), {O you who believe! be careful- of your duty- to Allah and speak the right word; He will put your deeds into a right state for you, and forgive you your faults; and who ever obeys Allah and his Apostle, he indeed achieve a mighty success} (Al-Ahzab; 33:70-71).

Praise be to Allah, reporting the saying of the prophet Shu'aib: {I desire nothing but reform so far as I a.....................and on and on

The above is from bin Laden's declaration of war on us-------can you comprehend that Pistof????????
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 08:30 am
http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2003/db031207.gif
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 08:34 am
Quote:
The Age's Paul McGeough, who has returned to Iraq, finds a community where life is better because Saddam has gone, but where it can't improve until the Americans are gone, too.

Al-Shualla should be one of George Bush's good-news stories. But the renovation of the local hospital and four of its schools seems like cold comfort for the people of this poor Shiite enclave on Baghdad's north-west fringes.

That the work has even been done must be prized out of them. Standing in a threadbare mosque, the stubble-faced Said Abdul Rashul Jabar apologises because the community cannot afford the richly coloured carpets that ordinarily adorn places of worship in Iraq. Then he sets out the change in their lives in eight months of US occupation.

"Life is the same as before," he says. But then he suggests it's worse: "We still don't have security we used to have - we have to lock ourselves in our homes at night. We have no jobs and there is no petrol. We can't get cooking gas. People are angry, very angry.

"The only good thing is that we don't have Saddam any more. Everything else is bad."

Al-Shualla is a neighbourhood of about 4000 homes. Extended families as big as 30, but sometimes with as many as 90 people, live on top of one another in cramped houses.

There is a hum in the marketplace but shopkeepers and stallholders say business is no better than before the war.

Jabar is the custodian of the mosque and a member of the local council. It's telling that he and the small crowd that gathers as we talk, have to be pressed on the renovation of the hospital and the schools. He concedes life might be better for the children of al-Shualla.

But there is something else that he has to be pressed on: on the evening of March 28 what was widely believed to be an errant US missile slammed into the local market place, killing 55 and injuring scores of people.

Jabar points to the room where the bodies of the dead are traditionally washed and bound in white cloth before burial.

"We had to wash the body of one of our teachers who was decapitated in the blast, but, of course, you were here that night. You saw it," he says. He is upset. His folded arms grip his chest more tightly.

"The pain of that night is still great. The Americans have paid no compensation to the families of the dead and we have heard nothing back from them on our petitions," he says. Running his mind's eye down the street that runs by the marketplace, he numbers the dead, house by house; then he points at people in the crowd: "That man lost three brothers in Saddam's war against Iran, two brothers of the man next to him died in the same war and three of my brothers died."

At his family's tailor shop opposite the market place, Said Adel Abed Qasim, 34, gives thanks that his sister-in-law was able to shield her four-month-old daughter from injury, even as died in the blast.

"My mother died. And my nine-year-old sister died, along with my brother's wife," he says, pain etched on his gaunt face. "Our troubles are great and our hearts are broken; this house, this family lost its mother."

In al-Shualla, a previously oppressed Shiite community that the US expected to welcome it, life is better because Saddam has gone, but it cannot improve until the Americans are gone, too. Back at the mosque, Jabar, 52, speaks with the confidence that underpins the growing political clout of the Shiite majority as it emerges from relative silence in the past eight months, pushing to become perhaps the most powerful force in shaping Iraq.

Quote:
"Our hopes for liberation were so big, but the US is not meeting its promises. We will not join the armed resistance. We are waiting for our leader, Ayatollah Ali Sistani, to tell us when and how to resist the US, then we will do it. We await Sistani's orders," he says.
[/color]

"Any Iraqi regime would be better than any foreign administration. We refuse to be occupied."

Sadly, these people are trapped in a void, relieved that Saddam is gone but now wishing that the US-led occupation forces would go, too.

As the families took their dead home on that terrible night in March, I noted the words of a turbaned Shiite cleric who tried to comfort them: "We say that we depend on God, and only God, to save us. And we pray that he will lead the Americans and the British to go away, and leave us in our land of Iraq." In al-Shualla, they are still praying.


SOURCE
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 08:47 am
Perc, somehow I like you better as 'blue' ...... strange huh ...
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 08:50 am
http://www.allhatnocattle.net/bushHomeDepot2.jpg
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 09:37 am
Gelisgesti wrote:
Perc, somehow I like you better as 'blue' ...... strange huh ...


Gel----you may be a kind, gentle soul, but no one would ever come to that conclusion by looking at the hate filled, anti-everything crap you post here.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 09:57 am
now that's, as we call it here, "a stink for thanks" ...

way to go.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 10:06 am
What am I supposed to say "thanks" for?
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 10:28 am
perception wrote:
Gelisgesti wrote:
Perc, somehow I like you better as 'blue' ...... strange huh ...


Gel----you may be a kind, gentle soul, but no one would ever come to that conclusion by looking at the hate filled, anti-everything crap you post here.


Shocked
What'd I say?
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 10:41 am
Type 'miserable failure' into google as a search target. (without the ')
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 02:15 pm
Bin Laden talks of the deaths that occurred in Iraq as a result of the sanctions imposed after the first gulf war. I haven't found anywhere in your link or the internet that refers to blaming the US for cutting off the water supplies to the Iraqis resulting in the death of 100,000 Muslim Children. Can you quote it directly from your sources?

How is bin Laden lying about boycotting American goods? At least sixteen percent of US income tax goes to defense spending, which includes research and development of weapons systems used against Palestinians by the IDF.

The promises of a paradisiacal reward for martyrdom is an incitement ot attack. It is not a reason for attack, perception.

You and bin Laden do agree on at least one thing; the Saud monarchy is corrupt.

So, apart from bin Laden's pre-planned occupation rhetoric, you don't think the US interests lie in establishing and maintaining military bases in the Arabian Peninsula, perception?
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 04:21 pm
GW/Osama
Two sides of a coin. GW says God talks to him and Osama calims that he speaks for Allah. Two nutcases on a mission to destroy what they feel needs to be destroyed. Osama is out to destroy the Infedels. In GWs case it's the American Middle Class that is the target. I get this feeling that it's a lose, lose war for the common folk.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 04:28 pm
Its all going according to plan. That is there was no plan other to take control of the bits of Iraq that the US had a strategic interest in. That's been accomplished. The only question is where next and when?
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 04:37 pm
On the telly tonight, some spokesman said, a propos WMD

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

What a mealy-mouthed hornswoggling cricker-crucker.

To misquote the old guy in Blazing Saddles.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 04:44 pm
And proof of abstinence is not evidenced by the evident abcess.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 04:48 pm
There are things that we know, and things that we know we don't know...er


There are known unknowns and unknowns that we know we unknow...if only we knewed it.
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 04:52 pm
InfraBlue wrote:
Bin Laden talks of the deaths that occurred in Iraq as a result of the sanctions imposed after the first gulf war. I haven't found anywhere in your link or the internet that refers to blaming the US for cutting off the water supplies to the Iraqis resulting in the death of 100,000 Muslim Children. Can you quote it directly from your sources?


Go back and read the link again.


Infrablu wrote:
The promises of a paradisiacal reward for martyrdom is an incitement ot attack. It is not a reason for attack, perception.


Yes it is an incitement to attack and it is a fabrication in the form of a presumptuous appeal----he has no knowledge of the hereafter yet he is falsely conveying a promise. It is a promise of payment for services performed. It is the most provocative type of reason and the most dangerous to the recipients ---you and I. It is what makes a suicide bomber-----if you can't comprehend that then there is no hope

Infrablu wrote:
So, apart from bin Laden's pre-planned occupation rhetoric, you don't think the US interests lie in establishing and maintaining military bases in the Arabian Peninsula, perception?


Until we "liberated" Iraq and established bases there, there was a need for bases on the Arabian Penninsula but from a strategic military requirement only----not an imperial one.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 04:54 pm
Quote:
Until we "liberated" Iraq and established bases there, there was a need for bases on the Arabian Penninsula but from a strategic military requirement only----not an imperial one.
And what is the difference?
0 Replies
 
perception
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 04:59 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Its all going according to plan. That is there was no plan other to take control of the bits of Iraq that the US had a strategic interest in. That's been accomplished. The only question is where next and when?


Congratulations Steve-----did you finally look at a map?

There are signs that Syria and Iran have suddenly had the "light bulb" snap on just as you did. Laughing

BTW Steve-----is (4100) your engine size?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Dec, 2003 05:04 pm
Quote:
strategic military requirement only----not an imperial one.


What's the difference Perc? I get the impression you are not willing to face up to the reality of what's going on. The Romans did it in Britain. Britain did it in India. It was always justified from the highest possible moral standpoint, but the underlying motive is always the same.
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