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THE US, UN AND IRAQ V

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2003 09:24 pm
Quote:
:: raed 8:01 PM [+] ::
...

I think it was 4 months ago when I spent three nights in Sammara because it is the closest place to Tikrit which didn't make your skin crawl and it actually had hotels. It was an empty hotel and me and the manager enede up chatting because we both had nothing better to do, I told him that I thought the city there was very quiet and it seemed very peacful, just a bunch of Iranian tourists visitng the shrine of Imam Sadiq al-Mahdi. he told me that I shouldn't be fooled, lots of the Tikritis and Saddam supporters came down to Sammara to hide.
and last night this happened

46 Iraqis Die in Fierce Fight Between Rebels and G.I.'s

Someone talking on arabic BBC said that probably a couple of Iranian tourists were injured but that was not confirmed. Killing 64 means there was a serious battle going on or they just scorched a street after freaking out.

UPDATE: AP just put up a different number

U.S. Says 54 Iraqis Killed in Samarra

and this one is more interesting to read than the NY Times one.
:: salam 2:48 PM [+] ::
...

From Riverbend's blog on the 29th

The most amusing thing about his visit was watching Chalabi and Talabani jumping up and down at the airport, cheering and clapping as Bush made the rounds. Muwafaq Al-Rubai'i, also a member of the Governing Council, was just embarrassing- he was standing on tiptoe and clapping like a 5-year-old watching a circus clown.

That was such an embaressing sight, I couldn't believe it, and the way Bush gave them a sideway glance........ I mean they are supposed to be heads of state. Maybe next time we give them cheerleaders uniforms and make them do a little dance.
It is good to know that I wasn't alone cringing as I watched that
:: salam 2:21 PM [+] ::

I feel like a scary taxi driver magnet. Why do I always get the weirdest ones.
Today's taxi driver had a tape with songs praising the work of "the brothers" in Falluja. I sat there stiff wondering if I should just open the door and jump, in the end I did get myself together to ask him what that was and he was happy to tell me who it was and where to get a copy of anti-american pop songs.
Well, they are not really pop songs they were sung like Thikir, which is supposed to be this sung poetry parising Allah and stuff, but listening to stuff praising the people in Falluja for their bravery in defending the faith and praying for each dead Fallujan to be replaced by 2000 is a bit too much.
The dilemma now ofcourse is should I go buy a copy of that tape or not? anyway if I made the decision to buy one the "highlights" of that tasteless thing will be translated and posted here.

How do you like that for a new developemnet? look at the Iraqi top ten music chart to get a feel for the sentiments in Iraq. Is it going to be Justin Timberlake? or Scary Sabbah with his greatest anti-coalition hits?
I know. It is not funny.

http://dearraed.blogspot.com/
... 54 KILLED
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2003 09:33 pm
Yes. The reports of those killed seem to show that the US overestimated. There was a report of killing wounded civilians at the hospital, but I haven't seen that posted on Google. Nor has Google headlined this story all day, far as I know from checking pretty regularly.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2003 09:38 pm
http://www.allhatnocattle.net/7768.jpg

Bush's Last Minute Pardon for Thanksgiving
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2003 09:50 pm
Tartarin wrote:
Yes. The reports of those killed seem to show that the US overestimated. There was a report of killing wounded civilians at the hospital, but I haven't seen that posted on Google. Nor has Google headlined this story all day, far as I know from checking pretty regularly.


It probably Went more like we shelled some empty buildings for a half hour or so. I seriouly doubt if the bad guys stuck around when the tanks opened up. Bush has a fear of truth thingy to deal with.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 07:04 am
Here you go Tar .........
Kill their family then lie in their face ... hearts and minds.

Quote:


SOURCE
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 09:57 am
I wish I'd said even a little bit of this:

Quote:
Another night, another gathering of cannon fodder for a Bush campaign backdrop.

The hoo-ah glory of it all, the star-spangled heroism, this time energized a Colorado Army base hosting a White House resident talking tough to those who'll actually be in tough.

Strike up the band and serve up more motherhood and apple pie amid the stench of burning humans in Iraq, the headless bodies, organs seeping from shredded torsos, the lifeless stares and limbless orphans, where reality plays itself out for a Texan vowing to "finish the job" he so valiantly initiated.

Those gung-ho, howling GIs needn't know the New York Times reported on Nov. 6 that back channel negotiations between the Americans and Saddam just prior to the invasion had offered the U.S. virtually everything it had demanded.

It was rebuffed by the folks whose "first choice is never war."

"Duty sometimes requires the violent restraint of violent men," Bush told his UK audience recently.

It's straight-shootin' Texas talk with no room for irony.

But not to worry, reporters at the Fort Carson, Colo. love-in were forbidden to interview or speak to the soldiers.

"I love freedom of speech ..." assures Bush, and often.

That Bush-style freedom of speech sure comes in handy, because it'd be un-American to let the troops know National Security Adviser Condi Rice insisted to CNN in 2001 that "we are able to keep (Saddam's) arms from him."

But they've got it figured out now and if you disagree, you'll be set right by the new Bush campaign come-ons accusing opponents of "attacking the president for attacking terrorists."

That's right -- bogging down America's military to battle Iraqi guerrillas opposed to foreign occupation is integral in keeping safe America's shores from terrorism because ... it just is.

Those rocket-propelled grenades have a long range.

Just as lethal is the clearly treasonous talk among the intelligence community, expressing disbelief their leaders would equate subduing Iraqi nationalism with anti-terrorism.

"There's no connection (to al-Qaida) months after we've gone through the documentation of Iraqi intelligence and yet we go to war with Iraq ... the mind boggles," ex-CIA Mideast agent Robert Baer told CBC's Fifth Estate.

Baer insists it's common knowledge among the intelligence community that the Saudis financed the mostly Saudi Sept. 11 hijackers and wonders aloud if Bush family ties with the kingdom have anything to do with the blind eye turned.

But wait, the Saudis haven't been ignored, argues Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, who told Vanity Fair earlier this year the U.S. invaded Iraq partly so it could pull its 5,000 troops out of the kingdom and thus reduce terrorism.

"(Our presence there) has been a huge recruiting device for al-Qaida ... just lifting the burden from the Saudis is going to open the door to a more peaceful Middle East," said Wolfowitz, sounding suspiciously like an appeaser.

A senior Bush official linking U.S. Mideast military policy to terrorist recruitment? He must have been misquoted!

We all know America doesn't "cut and run" from "thugs."

Meanwhile, the theme "the world under Bush has gotten so scary I have to vote for Bush" has worked until now, so why shouldn't those new Republican ads warn "it would take one vial or crate slipped into this country to bring ... horror."

Beware the Iraqi mules of mass destruction and we can all be thankful Bush stood peerless guard Sept. 11, 2001, though we may never know just how resolutely, since he refuses to release all the documents pertaining to that day.

There's no need to bring up the pesky past, though it's worth noting then-defence secretary Dick Cheney in 1991 defended the decision of Dubya's dad not to invade Iraq, citing the "quagmire" danger.

What does he say now?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 10:04 am
the Bush team mantra:
"If at first you don't succeed, lie, lie again."
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 10:16 am
Ge, thanks for the ridiculous photo of Bush bestowing mercy on the turkey (doesn't really look like a turkey...could it be a fake?)

And you wrote:

Quote:
Sistani wants what America used to have .... free and fair elections .... one man one vote.


The more I read about this guy, the more I think we should pay attention to him. I have read a number of quotes over the past two weeks, and he sounds like the voice of sanity.

The NYTimes yesterday had a long piece on the disagreements among the players in the government-to-be. I did not get the feeling that the Council is trying to hold on to power but that they feared a too-sudden transition that might create a power vacuum. (Maybe I am not reading "sinister" when I should?)

[I've not read or posted for a week. Now, I must back up and peruse this new thread in its entirety.]
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 10:42 am
Kara wrote:
Ge, thanks for the ridiculous photo of Bush bestowing mercy on the turkey (doesn't really look like a turkey...could it be a fake?)

And you wrote:

Quote:
Sistani wants what America used to have .... free and fair elections .... one man one vote.


The more I read about this guy, the more I think we should pay attention to him. I have read a number of quotes over the past two weeks, and he sounds like the voice of sanity.

The NYTimes yesterday had a long piece on the disagreements among the players in the government-to-be. I did not get the feeling that the Council is trying to hold on to power but that they feared a too-sudden transition that might create a power vacuum. (Maybe I am not reading "sinister"
when I should?)
[I've not read or posted for a week. Now, I must back up and peruse this new thread in its entirety.]


No fake,I'd recognize that sneer anywhere Wink

If you remember my post about ' theocrasy' in Iraq.... Sistani was who I had in mind. He has been walking a thin line since his fatwa in June. He has given Bush more and more rope and now seems poised to hoist Bush on his own Democratic petard.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 11:37 am
Quote:
to hoist Bush on his own Democratic petard.


surely you meant Republican, and retard.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 11:40 am
heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .

good one, Boss . . .

okbye
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 11:53 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Quote:
to hoist Bush on his own Democratic petard.


surely you meant Republican, and retard.


MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA .... why didn't I think of that!

Actually I don't think either of them (Bush or Sistani) are thinking much about Democracy, just creating the illusion of....
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 12:02 pm
Good one, Steve.

Ge, I think Sistani is pro-democracy if it can be made to work with and for the Iraqi people. The tug of war will be between what our administration wants for Iraq and what the Iraqis want for themselves.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 12:22 pm
Kara wrote:
Good one, Steve.

Ge, I think Sistani is pro-democracy if it can be made to work with and for the Iraqi people. The tug of war will be between what our administration wants for Iraq and what the Iraqis want for themselves.


Sistani will have no political power per se. First off he represents 60% of the total population, that is clout. If each person of each level of government is elected in a Democratic fashion that 60% ... will carry the day each and every day.

Sistani's idea of Democracy is to hold the hearts and minds of the people while Bush Democracy ... is to hold them by the short hairs.

Sistani is constrained by Islamic law .... Bush by the voters and we all know how that goes.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 02:18 pm
Oops!Shocked
Quote:
U.S. Soldiers Sweep Through Iraqi Town in Major Raid
By Andrew Hammond

HAWIJA, Iraq (Reuters) - Hundreds of U.S. troops descended on the Iraqi town of Hawija on Tuesday, breaking down doors, demolishing walls and seizing suspected guerrillas in the largest raid in the oil-rich region since Saddam Hussein's fall.

Officers said they had captured 27 guerrilla suspects, including the alleged leaders of two cells of the Saddam Fedayeen militia. But they denied reports they had caught Saddam's right-hand man Izzat Ibrahim.

"Every one of these guys we've got today are quality targets and have done something directly against us or our forces," Colonel William Mayville told his officers at a late afternoon briefing in the northern Iraqi town near the city of Kirkuk.

"This city is being held hostage. There are thugs, there are bullies, they are armed...There's a lot of folks would like to give us information but fear the consequences."

Up to 1,000 soldiers from the 173rd Airborne Brigade sealed off the cold, muddy, mainly Sunni Arab town before dawn on Tuesday and were still searching it after dark.

Soldiers broke open the front gate to the house of Adel Ali Saleh at dawn in near-freezing temperatures.

"I've got breathing problems," protested the 28-year-old, who said he was a vegetable seller, after a yellow bag was placed over his head as he knelt in the muddy street outside.

"They all say that," Specialist Roberto Sandifer said.
"He has Fedayeen tattoos on his arm. He's on our list."

MISTAKEN IDENTITY

Soldiers stormed into the house of another elderly man called Hamza, but apologized when he told them the suspect they were looking for actually lived next door.

"We're very sorry," Major Doug Vincent said, passing him a flier of apology which promised to create a new Iraq "in which to raise your children and practice your religion without fear."


In another incident, soldiers brought in a bulldozer to destroy the house of Aziz Abdel-Wahhab after a large cache of explosives was found there. They relented, and only destroyed the front wall of the compound, after the elderly man on crutches gave information on the whereabouts of his sons.

Across the town, soldiers found anti-U.S. and pro-Saddam graffiti and posters on walls, with slogans like "Saddam is the pride of the Arabs," "Death to the agents," and "Don't be armor for the Americans."

One shopkeeper, whose walls had a poster bearing Koranic verses exhorting Muslims to fight infidels, told U.S. forces that local guerrillas had warned him not to remove it.

Across the street at the central square, a tank smashed a monument carrying a mural of Saddam. U.S. soldiers said someone had cleaned Saddam's face which had been obscured a month ago.

"Let them take it away," said Khaled, a teenager who works in a nearby clothes shop. "Three years after it went up the old regime arrested one of my relatives, that's how I remember this monument."

Townsfolk gathered in large crowds and stood in silence as the U.S. troops blocked the central area, but many erupted in anger when asked about the operation, dubbed Bayonet Lightning.

"Frankly, I prefer Saddam," said one, who gave his name as Mohammad Hussein. "Now the streets are filthy, the electricity goes out and crime has become a big problem."


0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 02:22 pm
And on a lighter note:Whitehouse dot org
Quote:
PRESIDENT'S SURPRISE THANKSGIVING REMARKS TO TROOPS DURING HIS BRAVE, 150-MINUTE, AFTER-DARK JAUNT TO THE MAXIMUM-SECURITY HEART OF THE "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" ZONE
Remarks by the President to the Troops
Baghdad Airport, Iraq

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you! Thank you! It's great to be here in Baghdad! Well, this impenetrable all-American Christian oasis that just happens to be in Baghdad, anyway.

(Applause.)

Hope my popping in for a few campaign photos isn't too inconvenient, boys. Besides, I was looking for a warm Thanksgiving dinner that wasn't cooked by the old ball and chain. Now don't get me wrong - Laura's Smoked Freedom Fowl is plenty tasty - but all the Parliament Menthol ashes in her gravy give me the Hershey Squirts something awful.

(Laughter.)

Now as you lowly grunts are no doubt acutely aware, today is Thanksgiving, a day when white Republicans with enough money and connections to get out of active combat duty gather comfortably in their sprawling homes to indulge in the uniquely American art of gluttony. On this day, we give thanks that Jesus saw fit to help us kill the Injuns and become the most powerful and super-superior nation on Earth. And this year in particular, we are also thankful that you military folk are here in Iraq, obediently following my orders to sink deeper into geopolitical quicksand so that America's petrochemical industry can reap the rewards of 21st century imperialism.

(Applause.)

You know, now that I think about it, this is the second best Thanksgiving Day surprise I ever done pulled - after that one time back in '76 when my frat brother Ogre came down to Midland. After dinner, me and him got so wasted on Jägermeister that when Ogre was all "Hump the gobbler!", I was all "Bitchen!" Well you can just imagine the look on the Missus' face when she stumbled in for a refill and saw me, pants around my ankles, hooting and hollering as I showed that greasy, piping-hot hen carcass what it means to be loved by a real Bushman. Surprise, Pickles! Har, Har! But this here surprise, well, wow, man. I gotta hand it to Karl for cooking this one up.

That is why today, I bring a message on behalf of America: we stand solidly behind our troops - no matter what. No matter that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. No matter that there was no connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda. No matter that Osama and Saddam are still at large, laughing at us. No matter that Afghanistan has been virtually abandoned and is slowly reverting back to Taliban control. And most of all, no matter that there's no light at the end of the tunnel. Because when any true American says "I Support Our Troops" - what he's really saying is, "GEORGE W. BUSH IS 100% PERFECT AND NEVER MAKES GINORMOUS MISTAKES AND TO EVEN SUGGEST OTHERWISE IS NO DIFFERENT FROM FLICKING A BOOGER IN THE OPEN MOUTH OF A CRIPPLED WAR HERO!"

(Applause.)

Speaking personally, I want to express my thanks to those few dozen of you enlisted folks who haven't yet complained on camera to the hippy news media about what a big old clusterfuck this mission has turned into. You know, about how after squashing the Iraqi army and their fearsome arsenal of M-80's and BB guns, absolutely nothing has gone anything like I said it would? I really do appreciate it. Fortunately, we can all be thankful that some voters are buying this neat-o new argument that we are fighting terrorists here instead of at home. Next year we're applying this logic to the War on Drugs - by invading Argentina and killing their women and children before any more yummy cocaine finds its way back into the false bottom of my monogrammed Waterman fountain pen. All in the name of FREEDOM®!

(Applause.)

You know, as I was making my high speed corkscrew descent a few minutes ago under cover of night in my ultra-luxury 747, I couldn't help but think how lousy it must be to not only be in this Mulamian armpit during daylight, but to also actually be exposed to genuine Iraqi rabble. And that, my friends, is precisely why I'm high-tailing it out of here this evening after only 150 minutes on the ground.

(Applause.)

In closing, I don't know how many of you will survive to see your smiling faces in my potently narcotic campaign commercials, but hear me now: your blind loyalty will pay off in the long haul. By allowing me to emotionally molest you children on the day of the year when you are most vulnerable, when all you want is the warm embrace of family instead of a car bomb lotto ticket, you have given me an early X-mas present in the form of a sexy photo shoot that is politically bulletproof - something that your flak jackets and HumVees only sort of are.

So smile pretty, because together, I will win in November - and that means the Southern Military Welfare State will continue to gorge on its nearly $400 Billion budget. So everybody wins - poor folks who depend on the armed forces for the money to theoretically go to school and improve their pathetic, tacky lots in life... and us Princes of New England, who rightfully lead just as we were born to. Lead from BEHIND the battle lines, mind you.

OK, have the FOX boys in the custom-truncated news pool got the damned pictures yet? Good. Let's hit the road.

(Applause.)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 09:09 pm
Did this one make it here yet? ;-)

Quote:
IRAQ IRONY WATCH:
"[Coalition Provisional Authority chief L. Paul] Bremer refused to give up. He chafed at the idea that a cleric [Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani] would be able to dictate Iraq's democratic transition. 'Is the political structure of Iraq going to be in the hands of one man?' Bremer said to a group of visitors in October. "

--The Washington Post, November 26 -
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 09:39 pm
nimh wrote:
Did this one make it here yet? ;-)

Quote:
IRAQ IRONY WATCH:
"[Coalition Provisional Authority chief L. Paul] Bremer refused to give up. He chafed at the idea that a cleric [Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani] would be able to dictate Iraq's democratic transition. 'Is the political structure of Iraq going to be in the hands of one man?' Bremer said to a group of visitors in October. "

--The Washington Post, November 26 -


I read one of the same vein ... Bremer is drawing to an inside straight.

HERE
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 09:42 pm
to Bush's 4 flush
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2003 10:07 pm
Quote, "Sistani's idea of Democracy is to hold the hearts and minds of the people while Bush Democracy ... is to hold them by the short hairs.

Sistani is constrained by Islamic law .... Bush by the voters and we all know how that goes."

I'm not sure which side will be safer for this world.
0 Replies
 
 

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