What is truth ?

For Truth even Rorty understands there is no middle ground reason why the old fox does n´t speak on it much...
Whatever is true is absolutely true...the "if" thing on truth is that there´s no way of proving otherwise if we are to take causality seriously...on the other hand if we drop causality out of the picture and stick with correlation instead, then anything goes and we all might as well believe in fairy's and gnomes...

...the "otherwise stuff" is no more then a "go around" that logicians brought up out of convenience for hypothetical scenarios...now the problem resides in proving entirely the grounds of that which is being hypothesised in the first place as an alternative to what already it is...

The key thought words where, are, for the Universe or reality as you prefer, either Unified or Mystified...no middle whatsoever grounds...

And I support that position.

And I support that position.

another irony...so you think that´s the case...hmmm I wonder if u get the silliness of what u just did with that sentence...

You would have done very well in the 17th century.

What ? being one more in the crowd...now is so much more fun to stand aside...

So... everything is absolutely true but there is no way of proving it if we stick with causality? This reminds me of theistic, dogmatic "thinking". "I can't prove it, but I know it is so." I had thought you were beginning to see beyond that kind of silliness...

Causality is a perception. Truth is a perception. They are labels we stick on information.
Why do you have such a need for the simplicity of absolutes?

No...you didn´t even read it right...if we are to stick seriously with causality, then the "if otherwise" proposition, the what instead and in place of that which functionally stands for the what it is right now, as an hypothetical alternative scenario, immediately becomes nonsensical unfounded speculation, and that´s what was meant, I was talking about hard determinism in there...just imagine if the "day" was n´t the "day" or the "sun" was n´t the "sun" but the "moon" instead...alternative initial conditions is all very well elsewhere but not never, in our space/time initial frequency...
And yes no description can ever match the "size" or "mass" of the "thing" itself unless it becomes that thing´s replica in its very own space/time frequency...and guess what, further, the "thing" in its "unified field" is not separate from the Whole...any description won´t ever even come close to match that... descriptions are a sub-set of Being with the pretension of encompassing it...phenomenology as language here is always one step behind...

I read it right, and no amount of word twisting and grasping at straws can make it seem any less nonsensical that it already is. And determinism is another leftover from theistic thinking...

In that case you are to explain to me how is it that you can speak on quality´s and reality in the first place, or for the purpose anything else ? What else could be more nonsensical then that ? You just don´t have a starting point...

I don't need one. And when I speak I chose my starting points arbitrarily according to what I want to speak about. I can do this because there are no absolute starting points. It is what everyone does, only, some think they are dealing with absolutes when they reach the point where their intellect cannot penetrate the subject matter further.

So you don´t think there are causes and effects...well, what do you think instead, care to enlighten us all ???
The alternative is correlation and for that purpose check your closet twice for bogeyman and mickey mousse...

1 - You don´t understand a bit do you ?
You don´t have any starting point relative or not without a true state of affairs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2 - oh, and Truth is not correspondence on what we know and reality...that is knowledge on truth !
(I don´t give a damn on correspondence theory by the way, I think with my own head)

3 - Leave God and the idiotic soap opera of religion out of this matter...you don´t need that kind of manoeuvre for this debate...this is not politics...

A TRUE STATE OF AFFAIRS is of essence for any kind of consideration that you and palls can come up with...any person with two fingers in the forehead can understand why it is so...Knowledge and truth are not the same thing...

...descriptions are always limited to a standing point and represent a tertiary function between that which is being observed and the observer...
on the other hand there is only so much potential into the thing to relate with all possible standing points from any given variable at any given point in Space/Time...the "thing" which is true is that which makes it possible in the first place, is the origin of the function.
That origin, if you want, has two sides, one in the "external variable" and the other on how it is relationally accommodated by the observer´s brain and its perceptual apparatus...
Nothing is truly alone in this world, all is bound together !

The ability to string word together and intelligence are not the same thing. You clearly demonstrate that. What a ******* retard.

Your childish outburst only shows your more then evident incapacity to realise the contradictions in terms in your own statements, aside the hypocrisy of a pseudo polite approach to those who dare to challenge your ill founded beliefs...Argumentum ad hominem wont save you from being public exposed for the nonsense you repeatedly and carelessly write time and again...

1 - Would you indulge us and explain how would you chose your starting points arbitrarily, would you clarify ? What do you mean with arbitrarily at all ? with no cause ? nothing but pseudo talk and empty space...
...obviously you only chose what you must in your own words according with your actual state of mind...

2 - ANY starting point is an ABSOLUTE in itself...the "place" where initial conditions are settled, otherwise obviously, would n´t be a starting point at all...

3 - Penetrate the subject ? the matter ? further ??? What subject ? what matter ? and further where to ??? according to you you dumb ass there´s no matter no subject and no further anywhere...

Do you even realize how dumb you are I wonder ?
Have you the vaguest clue on what you are talking about ? Geeeeee...you don´t do you ? Just read carefully your damn silly anarchistic sentences twice and spare me your simple minded demagogy and keep your ad hominems to your dog...

I could go carefully sentence by sentence post by post pointing out all the idiotic assessments that your shining enthusiasm produces out of free air, but you know what is pointless...

From now on be coherent and spare me your detestable light hearted imagination and don´t address my posts any further as I will do the same with yours...you don´t have the brains to speak with me !

If it is the case that there is no Absolute truth then it must be the case to question what truth are you talking about at all ? Why are we debating anything ? What is it that it is true that it is not true if it is not true ? What ? Because from that point on there´s nothing to talk about on any subject !

Understanding Truth is about surpassing the "difficulty" of relativism, mainly because relativism only stretches so far as far the function can go between two or more operators...no mystery in there...Truth is a final state concerning all things and none in particular, or none without context...in that sense relativism is the very thing which makes truth an ultimate absolute...of course realizing this is out of reach for the simple minded immediate glance of libertarian week end would be poets...

It was a childish outburst. But it felt good.
You could have easily googled the meaning of "arbitrary". It means "subject to individual will".
So yea, I am indeed indulging you with explaining that the starting points we chose for our explanations are subject to our individual will, and the basis on which we make this choice is "what we are explaining".




You are telling me that? Now I will never stop laughing..

One of the greatest challenges of understanding your posts is finding the coherency of it while you are raping English. The second greatest challenge is to indulge your flights of fancy. I deal with what is. You dream up absolutes that you time and again fail to justify.

"The subject matter" is a term that means "what we are dealing with", and "further" is simply moving forward in our understanding of it.

Why, have I made you angry, Fil?
In another thread you say that you find it amazing that so many smart people reject your idea of absolute truth. The underlying implication is that however smart you think these people are, you think that you are smarter. Perhaps you are, but so far you haven't demonstrated it. The points fresco and JLNobody are making are far above what you can grasp and cram into your simplistic idealism. I think it is mostly because you don't want to abandon that simplicity, even though it has been shown to fall short of describing or accounting for reality.
Instead you take your ideas ,that you have selected based on your judgement (arbitrarily), and peddle them as absolute truths. Are you sure you are not a christian, or at least someone who was brought up on christian beliefs?

...prejudice and preconception right there...
I was...but in fact since young age I turn into a radical atheist, not that father and mother approve...only as an adult did I accept that people would have the right to have their belief no matter what logic dictates...
...the point was truth is not about describing reality but simply accepting there is one...you seem to miss the lectures on the difference between knowing and being...(Quito is the capital of Ecuador whether I know it or not...)
Fresco and Jl have shown nothing in so far they just think they did...anyway fresco is the one who comes closer of being coherent and knows a little something on what he is addressing...at least he his smart enough to be cautious on what he writes...

...and please don´t insist on confusion with things like the "matter is what we are dealing with"...according to you if you understand what you did write and defend there´s nothing that you are dealing with...