Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2011 05:33 pm
@hamilton,
Quote:
truth is truth if i say so.
Thats a lie !
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2011 05:37 pm
Quote:
What is truth ?
It is usually "shocking red" and smells very bad, making people screw up their faces . I used to have a truth, but the wheels fell of so I threw it out . Of course the new ones have a lot of dials and buttons and switches and flashing lights but are thrown out even quicker than the old truths .

The best truths are the ones you make yourself .
0 Replies
 
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2011 06:11 pm
@Ionus,
i say nay nay...
0 Replies
 
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2011 06:12 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
truth is truth if i say so.
Thats a lie !
if i agree, its a bit of a paradox...
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Jun, 2011 09:48 am
@Chights47,
Chights47 wrote
Quote:
Are you refering to Auguste Comte's law of the three stages?

Not as far as I know.
Gurdjieff's "law of three"..... the three gunas in hinduism....the trinity...and maybe Hegel's dialectic (thesis, antithesis, synthesis).
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 07:53 am
@fresco,
Quote:
Gurdjieff's "law of three"..... the three gunas in hinduism....the trinity...and maybe Hegel's dialectic (thesis, antithesis, synthesis)

Oh, you mean like the Good, the Bad and the Ugly..... I saw that... great " Shoot-em-up".
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 07:56 am
@Ionus,
hey, id forgotten about this topic! ok. truth is true until it is proven wrong. dont ask about wrong. i dont know about wrong.
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 08:31 am
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:
truth is true until it is proven wrong.
Why do people think this, it doesn't make any sense. If something hasn't been proven wrong but is believe to be wrong by some, then it's in a sort of "limbo" which is called: plausible. It's neither true, nor false. It could be true and it could not be true thus for right now it's just about whatever the individual believes but in a general sense, it's neither.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 09:11 am
@hamilton,
Quote:
truth is true until it is proven wrong.
You mean wrong is to be rued until it is proven true .
0 Replies
 
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 10:55 am
@Chights47,
i agree. i didnt mean that at all. i just was a little bit trolling, i guess.
Chights47
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 11:54 am
@hamilton,
What you said is correct on an individual level though. If someone believes in the Christian god then that is true for them because it has not been proven false for if it had, then people would no longer believe. What I don't get is how people can believe that an individual truth transfers over to a general truth though. I'm not saying that you believe this, I just know some people that will believe this vehemently until the day they die.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 12:08 pm
@Chights47,
especially on the day they die.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 03:34 pm
@Chights47,
What you have just called individual and general truths, I sometimes call private and public truths--others may say subjective and objective truths. The Christian religion--and perhaps most religions--would hold to their publically shared (or intersubjective) truths no matter the evidence to the contrary. They do so , I think, because they serve psychological and socio-political rather than philosophical functions. Indeed, as a last resort they may even deny very hard counter-evidence as illusions presented by Satan.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jul, 2011 12:43 am
@JLNobody,
Yes. The irony is that religions which advocate their version of Truth (capital T) are prepared to deny functional truth (small t) as measured by acceptable/secular evidence. Thus those with a vested interest in the respectable status of the word "truth" actually undermine that status !

cletrusrichard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2011 07:12 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I don't want to sound cliche, but truth depends on the messenger and the receiver of the message. I might say that it is raining outside and it would be the truth as I see it and from where I am, but my family who lives 600 miles away, would say that is not the truth.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Jul, 2011 11:14 pm
@cletrusrichard,
Your family certainly would n t say to you that your experience was n t real to you would they ?...
(in the end the relation/function between things is what is to be true)

Relative still is Absolute is my best way to surmise my impression on this issue...
Truth is everywhere in everything !
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 01:49 am
@fresco,
you forget that such denial is also the bi product of a specific functional operativeness in context... which is itself a brute fact...you or Rorty are not to distinguish Language from form !
You and him might scream all you want against pinpointing a "location" to objects out of perceptional relativism, but never against the brute fact as the result of an entangled holistic relational process...you have nothing left out to work about...language is in it, and is not an alien arrived from Mars...Language is form about form ...dig it ???
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 06:38 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
No. Contrary to popularist views, language is not about "anything...it is not representational....it part of the general behavioural interaction of human communicators (including self with itself). In this respect, "truth" is a verbalization which may or may not be uttered with respect to a question of agreement about conditions of mutual interaction...it indicates a node in a decision procedure, not an ontological statement of affairs.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 11:48 am
@fresco,
That assertion is what is open for debate...you cannot use the word interaction and simultaneously say that language is not representational although given your words I am sure you donĀ“t understand why...
A representation is not the thing, but that is a trivial truth if that was what you meant...a representation is just the proportional representative transcriptional form that reports to something without being that something, a reaction, which is a true phenomena in itself...(and a natural one)
....what it seems to me is that you are willing to debate the roots of causality but that is beyond the point and arises from confusion...correlation between language (a form in itself) and the phenomena to which it intends to refer to suffices as a necessary association for what truth is meant to report, given our own nature being the natural realm from which such necessity is established through language...there is simply no way of justifying the opposite without good reason...(nor beyond human reason)

The apprehension that language builds in is here seen as a reaction to phenomena, a form upon a form...the true value of its correspondence arises or emerges from its natural spontaneous necessity...it is an a priori fact.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jul, 2011 12:11 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
In that sense one might well wonder about the difference then between truth and not truth...and I can see why...my personnel approach if you indulge me goes about "the relational proximity" of the description sort of speak towards the object from which the form of language is build in the function it establishes which is relative yet legitimate and necessary or natural and spontaneous...in such light all linguistic descriptions are natural necessary reactions to phenomena from each observers point of view...but they all not address the same as object or target even if apparently they meant to describe the same by social agreement...what I am asserting is a subtle yet important distinction in between what is meant with language and what is actually happening in it...
 

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