Why are Atheists so Scary?

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

What are your reasons for not believing?

I'm more than willing to listen.

I created a thread where we can discuss if you like. I do not wish to derail sun's thread.

A Failure To Convince Me That Any Gods Exist
http://able2know.org/topic/153308-1

A
R
T

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@salima,

Thank you salima this is a kick in my seat, I would have missed the 'lord of the flies' if you had not picked it up.

Fear is usually a fantasy agreed.

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@ossobuco,

Thank you for your solution, I read mostly poetry.

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@ehBeth,

This may very well be the case.
Thank you

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@littlek,

littlek wrote:

Shall we all try to agree that MOST theists do not try to cram their religion down others' throats and that MOST atheists, likewise, do not try to persuade anyone into atheism (the notion is ridiculous to me). The people who take either tact are the proverbial squeaky wheels that make the rest of us resentful at best.

All that aside, there is still the consideration of basic communication, civility and tolerance. Accept for one attempt here on a2k, I NEVER open up a conversation about my atheism with someone I don't know well. I also never open up a conversation about someone else's beliefs. Conversations generally occur after someone is being religious at me and getting upset about me. I have had more than one person yell at me for saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Yes YELL at me while including all the other assholes who may go that route as well. Usually when I say that I am referring to Christmas and New Years. How bizarre that reaction is to me I can't even seem to explain.

It does seem as though theists are afraid of us. I also can't fathom why that is. Aside from the loud, shrill and antagonistic atheists who are reported to be out there we are normal, well-adjusted, happy, polite members of society. If most of us atheists can look past the shrill theists, of which there are MANY more, why can't you look past our version?

Doesn't the mere fact that there are so fewer of us than you make you feel better, help you realize that we have no power over you?

Not sure who these comments are directed towards.

I, at least, can agree with your first assertion that the battle between believers and non-believers plays out only in the margins.

If you don't appreciate a poster's "attack" on your atheism you have two very powerful and totally effective responses: withdraw from participation in the thread or ignore the attacker.

The self-assumed role of atheist victim is unbecoming.

"Believers" have two reasons to "fear" unbelivers:

1) They are uncertain in their belief and fear what may be the truth
2) They fear the disproportionate political impact of non-believers. Contrary to your plaintive question, non-believers in America do have a disproportionate degree of power. Whether or not this is good is another question, but the fact remains that it is the case.

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@failures art,

Oh I know I thought what I said was that people are generally afraid of of the it just so happens that atheists may be regarded as solo.
Not that the only lonely or singular people are atheists.
Thanks for you r time and care.

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@ehBeth,

"Of course I am not saying atheists are lonely people"
Thanks

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@Finn dAbuzz,

I agree with much of this, especially this part:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

What I can't abide are atheists who insist on trumpeting their disbelief with a fanfare that declares believers are irrational idiots.

I'm also not too keen on believers that insist on trumpeting their belief with a fanfare that declares non-believers are defective sinners.

While I am atheist (or agnostic -- without belief in any gods at any rate, though I am rather partial to Ganesh), I am not blanketly anti-religion. I think there have been significant problems with various religions, and I think that various religions have done a lot of good. (Often the same religions, at the same time.)

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@Finn dAbuzz,

I did reason my way out the religion door. For about a year in the mid sixties, I wrestled with Cardinal Ratzinger's theology, as well as Hans Kung's, as described in the National Catholic Reporter. Then one day, I just didn't believe any of it, all that theology, at all. The theology wrestling and whatever doubts were brewing in those last few years were, though, different from the day I simply did not believe anymore. First of all, that was quite relaxing, or freeing, as one could say.

Nothing to do with disappointment.

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@littlek,

littlek wrote:

Finn, to us god has as much factual validity as unicorns do. There has been no more evidence of a god than of unicorns.

Obviously there is no more factual evidence for the existence of God than there is for the existence of unicorns, but there is no intuitive reason to believe that unicorns exist.

If your argument is that in the absence of factual evidence you will not believe, that's fine.

And yet, based on prior posts you seem to believe in all sorts of political concepts that cannot be factually proven.

Why the faith in an ideology but not God?

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@ossobuco,

Of course for me it was a heal thread.
Sorry any one thought my motive impure.

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@Butrflynet,

Will try it out.
Thank you for your inclusion of me.

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@sometime sun,

Sometime Sun, I am sorry for any part I may have had in derailing your thread. The general topic of religion is a bit of a hotbed topic here.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I did reason my way out the religion door. For about a year in the mid sixties, I wrestled with Cardinal Ratzinger's theology, as well as Hans Kung's, as described in the National Catholic Reporter. Then one day, I just didn't believe any of it, all that theology, at all. The theology wrestling and whatever doubts were brewing in those last few years were, though, different from the day I simply did not believe anymore. First of all, that was quite relaxing, or freeing, as one could say.

Nothing to do with disappointment.

I'm hardly in a position to judge or comment on your personal spiritual journey beyond the comments you make in this forum.

One day you stopped believing.

OK, but that doesn't describe a reasoned change in paths.

Not saying you that need anthing more than that decision point to be true to yourself (or right for that matter) but it explains very little at all.

Again, I'm not trying to judge you but your comment about your disbelief being relaxing and freeing can be intepretated as surrender as much as to enlightenment.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

You evidently have an intuition that there is a god. Littlek and I don't.

That is, we have no more intuitive reason to think that any gods exist than that any unicorns exist.

Meanwhile, I answered your previous post to me on F'art's new thread:

http://able2know.org/topic/153308-1#post-4181506

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@littlek,

You can't derail a thread that as no clear direction.

You've helped put it on a track that has some meaning.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

OK, I'll repost here too then:

******

I think I'm probably pretty close to what you [F'art, on his new thread] lay out. I'm very impressed with nature -- I think it has organically accomplished some really amazing things. I like pattern, I like order, and it's fun to find it in nature. I love to see the whys -- this evolved for that reason, for example. Not everything is patterned and orderly in nature, though, of course. A whole lot of stuff is random. Not everything has a reason.

I think its awe-inspiring that something did start -- I think there were organic, natural reasons for it but I think that's pretty amazing. I think some people would classify this awe alone as a type of religion. I don't.

I also don't take it any further than that. "Wow nature" doesn't translate into going to any particular church or ascribing to any particular set of beliefs. It's just "wow nature."

Meanwhile, I DO have a set of beliefs based on my culture(s), experiences, reading, observations, etc. I've described myself before as "sickeningly moral" -- I managed to arrive at that state without being religious at any point.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

You evidently have an intuition that there is a god. Littlek and I don't.

That is, we have no more intuitive reason to think that any gods exist than that any unicorns exist.

Meanwhile, I answered your previous post to me on F'art's new thread:

http://able2know.org/topic/153308-1#post-4181506

If you wish to insist that there is as much intuitive reason to believe in unicorns as there is to believe in God, so be it.

I'm not going to push the matter beyond noting how amazing it is that intelligent people will so often rely on ignorance when it suits them.

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@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

SS, where do you GET these beliefs from?

Fear, ignorance, irrationality and delusion.

dlowan wrote:

Has someone told you all this?

Yes and no

dlowan wrote:

What on earth has led you to believe all these things?

Fear, ignorance, irrationality and delusion

dlowan wrote:

Just look at a few of them!

. Atheists don't give to charity.

Hardly anyone gives enough to their charity.
Will have to write something on what I believe charity to be,
A love for a start and a fiath for an end.
Charity is not just about money.

dlowan wrote:

. Atheists are all alone.

Atheists are fewer than the faithful, there are less of them they are a minority, minorities are less, less is more alone.

dlowan wrote:

. Atheists have no joy or love

The concept of 'Atheism' to my mind means not believing in intangibles or supernaturals, love and joy are both these things to me.
I did not say I did not think You have no love or joy, I said I thought the concept of 'atheism' denies intangibles and supernaturals.

dlowan wrote:

I am assuming either some sort of constant preaching from somewhere?

I have a Minister and a Priest, but they do not preach about atheism.
Fear, irrationality, ignorance, delusion

dlowan wrote:

Or...are these your own inner greatest fears, and what you protect yourself from with your religion?

Possibly
Thanks for the investigation

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

OK, I'll repost here too then:

******

I think I'm probably pretty close to what you [F'art, on his new thread] lay out. I'm very impressed with nature -- I think it has organically accomplished some really amazing things. I like pattern, I like order, and it's fun to find it in nature. I love to see the whys -- this evolved for that reason, for example. Not everything is patterned and orderly in nature, though, of course. A whole lot of stuff is random. Not everything has a reason.

I think its awe-inspiring that something did start -- I think there were organic, natural reasons for it but I think that's pretty amazing. I think some people would classify this awe alone as a type of religion. I don't.

I also don't take it any further than that. "Wow nature" doesn't translate into going to any particular church or ascribing to any particular set of beliefs. It's just "wow nature."

Meanwhile, I DO have a set of beliefs based on my culture(s), experiences, reading, observations, etc. I've described myself before as "sickeningly moral" -- I managed to arrive at that state without being religious at any point.

What you are dancing with here is a belief in God but a rejection of humanities expression of his plan.

One need not identify oneself as an atheist becuase one cannot identify oneself as a Christian.

The definition of "cool" doesn't include atheism.

1 Reply

Why are Atheists so Scary?

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