Israel and the middle east.

No i can honestly say I havent read your post and will make a note to look for it. I am pointing fingers, though not at everyone. Its just that damn word "civilized" that I can't stand hearing come from people when they refer to the Middle East. Its a hard place, and what they think is "civilized" may not be the case for others (if I must be specific, Dave and Xris).

You all speak of yourselves as if your more modern, or "civilized", than these people. You may think you could do a better job but I doubt you have any idea of how "civilized" the world actually is. I have served in many conflicts, many not under the control of the U.S. military, 2 of these tours have been in the Middle East. I served in Kuwait during my time with the Navy, and worked in Yemen as well as an independent soldier. War is gorgeous, but the disgusting things that people are able to do to one another are off the battle field. I dont understand what authority you think you have to call someone more barbaric than another.

As to the U.S. using Isreal to agress the middle east, perhaps you are right. But the US only backs Isreal with finance, they have not been seen on either side of that battle. Not to mention the only thing keeping Isreal from bombing the hell out of Iran is the U.S. Whether Iran deserves it or not.

T
Clearly districts of Jerusalem are in Israel, and others in the West Bank. If either state wants to use it as their administrative centre that's perfectly feasable - it's up to them.

I dont understand what authority you think you have to call someone more barbaric than another.

But the US only backs Isreal with finance, they have not been seen on either side of that battle.

Not to mention the only thing keeping Isreal from bombing the hell out of Iran is the U.S. Whether Iran deserves it or not.

What state is the State of the West Bank? How was it established?

What countries recognize it? Where are its embassies? To what international body does it belong?

Chomsky is a condratictive lunatic. He claims Anti-semitism towards himself, while he openly slanders the Catholic religion. He is a known Socialist Anarchist, and although brilliant in his theories and language insites, he is a standard example of the "Hebrew intellects" that seem to reapear throughout history promising "all the answers to happiness". He is destructive toward politics and warfare and is probably one of the reasons why America has lost many of her liberties. The day this man finally keels over and dies will be a bright mark in history.

Do not confuse this man as a credible "expert on Isreal". He has lived under the sheltered American society that JFK and FDR created through fear and propaganda. He claims love and blatantly hates on people in his speeches. He is a classic Marxist in a sense that he says he hates goverment, seperation of classes, and the destruction of liberty, and yet to prove his point he states that only the "intellegent" should rule because they know what is best.

If this doesn't scream crazy then I dont know what does.

You call him certain names, as if that is against his character.

He claims Anti-semitism towards himself, while he openly slanders the Catholic religion.

1940s, UN General Assembly, same one that recognised Israel, look at any half decent map...


Largely irrelevent - such things are not preconditions for statehood.

The GA created the State of the West Bank? I haven't been able to discover such a State.

Which maps are you looking at? Arab maps?

And it does make a difference whether an International Body recognizes a country,

or whether they send ambassadors.

For God's sake Ken move on from this reality-denying rubbish will you, it's pathetic. Even the US has regarded the West Bank and Gaza Strip as occupied territories since the sixties, and the US is much more pro Israel on this matter than any other country on earth apart from Israel itself.

Hamas have been the PA since the US forced a free and democratic election on the Palestinians (hey that's a point - why would they even do that if they didn't recognise some kind of state?).

Would have been better if they'd left Fateh to administer the state, which even if it is a terrible state with no diplomatic presence anywhere else remains a state.

You call him certain names, as if that is against his character. Not every one thinks that socialists are the scourge of civilisation, as you obviously do. He is destructive towards war?:perplexed:wots that supposed to mean? He is Hebrew intellectual, Marxist, anarchist, socialist,who despises the RC church, my kind of guy. Why dont you stop trying to assassinate his character from your secluded corner and comment on the vid.

You know, most people wouldn't dare go into that the English did awful things to the Catholics during your Epispical switch, so I won't. What ever happened to the fun Brits eh?

Anyway, I did watch the video. It simply proved to me a couple of things. One: he is a terrible speaker for a language professor. Two: His veiw does not, and has not, mixed with mine. He claims that citizens were massacred, they were, but so are the tradgedies of war.

No idea what would have been better, nor do I really care. Gaza is a place, not a State.

I know where and what Gaza is, thank you, ( although knowing Wikipedia they may as well have said Gaza was in South America. You picked a very reliable source, good job). Don't forget that when you fight a rebel/terrorist group (whether they are or not it doesn't matter, because the Israelis view them as such), the people are where they draw their power. There is no strict military at the head and instead there is only a mass of people. So the only true offensive you could take against these groups is to attack their people and hope they give up. This is a stupid tactic and rarely works, you only see alot of death and bad news rep. In its place they should have done more of what is being done in Afganistahn as go in as a liberating force, although it is expensive and has many problems on the home front. So either way you slice it, the best way to do it would be to leave it alone, but they cant do that. So they picked what they probably considered the easier way to get cooperation.

Dont talk to me on Counter Insurgent combat. I was a Navy SEAL so if you and I would be competeing for better soldier, it would be me. I work with people who fight against those "insurgent" bastards every day, and I tell you that if you think that those people dont know how to blend into their civilian scapegoat, then you olbviousley haven't actually fought against any Insurgents or you had your eyes closed the whole damn time.

And as to the twisted American view, I know, thats why I left the service and joined a security contractor. Civilian lives are costly yes, but when you have no other choice, (which is always the case when fighting quazi terrorists), they are hard to avoid and usually inevitable. Your balless ethics have clouded your perception of what has to be done, and if you think for one second that you know anymore than someone who has actually been there then you need to talk first to the Israelis, then to the inhabitants of Gaza.