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War in Afghanistan

 
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Aug, 2009 02:16 pm
@urangutan,
urangutan;80919 wrote:
Financial burdens. Mate, I don't give a fat rats about the burden of imigrants to your shores nor the finances of the Mother country. If you want to believe you are fighting terror then be my guest. The truth is, you are a colonialist force no matter how you wage it, until you offer the solution that is innevitable. That is unlikely because you do not have one and what it is would not be good buisness.
If you paid attention im not commenting on the immigration. I asked you why you think we are there,considering the cost of being there in human and economic terms?get it now?
Do you think Australia has not played its part in ME politics.
Your a colonialist if im not mistaken, that is not unless your an aboriginal.
0 Replies
 
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 04:10 am
@Arif phil,
I do apologise Xris. I remembered a comment from earlier in this piece, when you spoke with Didymos Thomas. It mentioned immigrants and I believe I was mistaken in my interpretation of your comment. I carried this thought through the reading and simply barked at you when the chance occured. As I never re-read your comments until now, I feel I did react inappropriately, without just cause or concern. I would appreciate it, if you would forgive my outburst as I will endeavour not to repeat such absurdities again.

---------- Post added 08-03-2009 at 05:17 AM ----------

I will have you know however, Xris, that yes Australia has played its part in Middle Eastern Affairs and there was a nasty rap across the knuckles for it as well. The removal of our Prime Minister for starters.

Sorry as well to say but there is a third group to your member of Australia, apart from colonialist, or native, there is also the immigrant, well the child of.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 04:18 am
@urangutan,
No problem,thanks for appologising.xris
0 Replies
 
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2009 04:50 am
@Arif phil,
You are welcome and thank-you.

---------- Post added 08-03-2009 at 07:33 AM ----------

So then Xris, back to your question that you asked of me.
What are the reasons for our financial burdens and our sacrifice, in reguard to the warring in Afghanistan.

Truth be known, we don't know why that is. We like to believe that fighting terrorists was our aim but why are there terrorists. It is the same question, because you have to answer both to solve the problem. The more you ask a simple question the deeper into doubt you get. What was our involvement in the region for a hotbed of anti west thought to be propogated. Who did we deal with to forge a distrust against us, when situations went from bad to worse. What did we do wrong, what are we doing wrong, we are wrong and that is the fact of the matter. So yes we are duped into believing it is a war on terror. We are being pschologically manipulated.

You want to solve the problems in Afghanistan, then use what we see as a problem to help build the nation. That in effect is not good buisness, as I earlier stated. Opium. Is it a problem or a necessity. Ask any surgeon and they will tell you, it is a requirement in many medicines. Now, solve the problem in Afghanistan, by ridding our own greed for buisness and support, what may be the only comodity, they can grow for profit. You want to talk sense but you think in riddles. If that did not feel like a slap in the face, then I will gladly bow out of this arguement and say nothing more.

So think about what I have said, because I believe, that if we do not see a solution then nought but our stupidity and sacrifice is the outcome.
0 Replies
 
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 03:28 am
@Arif phil,
We have to prove that we are not standing for our right to make a dollar. There must be a reward for an honest days work and we of the modern west must abandon our belief that what we have is ours. We live or were built, of the theft from those who were unable to protect themselves.

I admire the Chinese for breaking the copyright laws of the film and music industry. it was not that long ago that we, as the west, stole that which was theirs for our own benefit and profit. We reap what we sow.Look at how we cry about the dollars in our hands, because we have no room in our pockets. Leagalize and legitimize the growth of poppies in Afghanistan, provide them the market to sell their product and the Mountain Lords of Afghanistan will uphold their side of the bargain, treaty or what ever there need be to bring peace and prosperity to the land.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 03:40 am
@urangutan,
As your posts are full of rhetoric i have a problem understanding what your actual question is.I asked originaly why you think we are there, if it is not for acting against extremists views and faith, that generates these acts of atrocities in the world,what is it?
0 Replies
 
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 04:04 am
@Arif phil,
I can agree that which you say, is the reason we are there but I cannot agree with it, when we do not admit we have a part to play in its reason. I am not trying to play you, your beliefs or your well wishes down, but I must stand by saying that we are a great part and reason for this behaviour, due to our own fanaticisms, extremists, and greed. Not to mention, how inconsiderately we believe that relief is simply disarming one over the other.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 04:49 am
@urangutan,
urangutan;81173 wrote:
I can agree that which you say, is the reason we are there but I cannot agree with it, when we do not admit we have a part to play in its reason. I am not trying to play you, your beliefs or your well wishes down, but I must stand by saying that we are a great part and reason for this behaviour, due to our own fanaticisms, extremists, and greed. Not to mention, how inconsiderately we believe that relief is simply disarming one over the other.
You cant make a claim that our greed has initiated these terrorist attacks without explaining your reasoning.Look at the attacks in Spain,the reasons given by the extremists, that it is a muslim country and it should revert to islam.Now do you think that anything to do with western greed?why is Australia still a target?What do you think would placate these terrorists and stop their demands for an islamic world?Their expressed views are that jihad must be used to revert us all to islam,could you find a peaceful way to avoid conflict under that threat?
0 Replies
 
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 05:40 am
@Arif phil,
You continue to play a game on a board we loaded. Our historical tales dictate the way in which you percieve ownership. In one hundred years the King Arthur movie will be considered the facts, as long as we continue to percieve that history is what we have written.

Islam did not arm those terrorists, gun manufactureres did. Radicalism does not predict violence but social disfunction feeds it. You offer peace to the innocent by way of force and you perpetuate the cycle of violence. You have no solution but sacrifice.

Stop and listen to yourself at least, Spain who cares about Spain. Did Spain care in the Americas, did they care in the Philipines, did they care anywhere. Provided they fed the coffers of their own greed, the lord was blessing them. So I care not for the plight of Spain. Prey tell me who is Spain. Is it the Romans, the Vandals, some other hoarde, was it someone before the Romans, were they of middle Eastern stock were they African and hey, how could anyone one other than whites be the lords of a part of Europe. Europe is for Europeans and the rest of the world is European for the taking.

Come off the horse that carries you too, the Palestine, in search of your Jerusalem. For which you shall conquer all to ingratiate thyself with Jesus. I will gladly nail the bastard to the cross, if it teaches you all of your errant ways.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 06:30 am
@salima,
salima;79402 wrote:
i live in india now but i am an american citizen who disagrees with its foreign policy. i was against the invasion of afghanistan from the beginning, against intervention with the government of saddam hussein and now looking back i can say terrorism has increased dramatically since those policies were put in place. i am aware of a lot of deaths of civilians and the destruction of the infrastructure and quality of life of the remaining citizens of both countries.


But the 9/11 plot was hatched in Afganistan by Bin Laden and his cronies, and the Taliban would not give him up. Should the United States have done nothing about the 9/11 attack?
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 06:40 am
@Arif phil,
The UN should've intervened alot earlier than they did with Saddam.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 06:51 am
@urangutan,
urangutan;81186 wrote:
You continue to play a game on a board we loaded. Our historical tales dictate the way in which you percieve ownership. In one hundred years the King Arthur movie will be considered the facts, as long as we continue to percieve that history is what we have written.

Islam did not arm those terrorists, gun manufactureres did. Radicalism does not predict violence but social disfunction feeds it. You offer peace to the innocent by way of force and you perpetuate the cycle of violence. You have no solution but sacrifice.

Stop and listen to yourself at least, Spain who cares about Spain. Did Spain care in the Americas, did they care in the Philipines, did they care anywhere. Provided they fed the coffers of their own greed, the lord was blessing them. So I care not for the plight of Spain. Prey tell me who is Spain. Is it the Romans, the Vandals, some other hoarde, was it someone before the Romans, were they of middle Eastern stock were they African and hey, how could anyone one other than whites be the lords of a part of Europe. Europe is for Europeans and the rest of the world is European for the taking.

Come off the horse that carries you too, the Palestine, in search of your Jerusalem. For which you shall conquer all to ingratiate thyself with Jesus. I will gladly nail the bastard to the cross, if it teaches you all of your errant ways.
Ide like to know what horse your riding because it seems your only interested in promoting violence against the west.It appears you agree with the conquest of spain by islamic jihad.Show your colours and lets be honest.Your attitude is exactly what i have been explaining.
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 06:58 am
@Arif phil,
Kennethamy, I do not deny that the September 11 attack on America was an attrocity, but can you stand and say that the Masacre at Wounded Knee was any different. Slavery was an abollition toward humanity, yet still offer no retribution. The Taliban. How different are they from government that you still stand proudly behind.

Hatched in Afghanistan, it was plagued in America. They certainly didn't learn to fly in Afghanistan. You thought terrorism was a snake that if you cut off the head it would die. You call it a war but your adversary is only visible part time and then it is often too late. What do you offer Afghanistan. Peace, I don't think so.

Does the United States have the right to do what they like for themselves. Isn't that the same same sentiment that terrorists use. Hey, don't missunderstand me, we are in Afghanistan together but we have no solution. All we have done is exchange the power of force. What is the solution, continued occupance, blanket removal, kill em all. How about daily dasie cuttin runs. Think for crying out loud say at least something usefull. Not just well he hit me first.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 07:02 am
@xris,
A little tale of Islamic war on its neighbours over the last thousand years might put certain posters views into perspective.It murdered ,raped and plundered hundreds of countries.It killed 80 million pagans in the indian sub continent and conqured the ME with devastating consequences so those who dare tell me the christian white deserves islamic wrath should read history first.Afghanistan was a Buddhist country at peace, till its priests and followers where murdered by the muslim warriors, so history is in the eye of the beholder.
0 Replies
 
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 07:08 am
@Arif phil,
I do not think you can read at all Xris if that is the impression you get from my post. The conquest of Spain, is a rue they drew for themselves over 700 years ago. Outcasting all but white Europeans, and Christians to boot. My point is that the peninsula was never anybodies that came from roman times on. It was anybodies or everyones. Before Roman times who were its inhabitants. This west mentallity is the curse you bring upon yourself. It is not what I perpetuate. I have accepted that I am in the wrong where I live. My say is mute to the desires of those more natural. I believe that my ancestry has blood on its hands and I will stand in that position.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 07:22 am
@xris,
A little tale of Islamic war on its neighbours over the last thousand years might put certain posters views into perspective.It murdered ,raped and plundered hundreds of countries.It killed 80 million pagans in the indian sub continent and conqured the ME with devastating consequences, so those who dare tell me the christian white deserves islamic wrath should read history first.Afghanistan was a Buddhist country at peace, till its priests and followers where murdered by the muslim warriors, so history is in the eye of the beholder.

---------- Post added 08-04-2009 at 08:25 AM ----------

urangutan;81205 wrote:
I do not think you can read at all Kennethamy if that is the impression you get from my post. The conquest of Spain, is a rue they drew for themselves over 700 years ago. Outcasting all but white Europeans, and Christians to boot. My point is that the peninsula was never anybodies that came from roman times on. It was anybodies or everyones. Before Roman times who were its inhabitants. This west mentallity is the curse you bring upon yourself. It is not what I perpetuate. I have accepted that I am in the wrong where I live. My say is mute to the desires of those more natural. I believe that my ancestry has blood on its hands and I will stand in that position.
The original inhabitants of spain where conquered and enslaved by muslims and your saying that entitles muslims to reconquer spain by terrorists efforts?Come on fly your true colours.
0 Replies
 
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 07:29 am
@Arif phil,
Xris this better dead than red mentality is outdated. I am not an Islamic sympathiser. I do not believe for one moment that they are any more innocent than our western civilisations, but you want to claim that, them and their religion and their desire to rule the world is what brings the peace you fought so hard to create for yourself at the expense of others undone. Who ruled Indo-China following world war II. Who was ousted from India, Malay, China, Singapore, countless other nations in Africa, and Asia, at a struggle at a cost. We finished fighting a war to rid the world of dictatorship and oppression and there we were gunning for our own intrests once again.

Was it the attrocities that forced a closure to China trade or was it the simple desire to punish them for kicking out the wealth interest in the nation. Why did America ban trade with Vietnam, following that war. They were the righteous government. Of the people for the people, just not the ones who could strike the best bargain. Don't talk to me like you deserve a peace that little rest of the world has. With no thanks to any of us fanatical Christians, Muslims, Consumerists, or whatever greed, inflicted hysteria, that controls us, has done.

I would sell chainsaws to Brazilians at a real cheap price, in fact i would give them away, including the fuel, so that we realised that poverty, is deforesting the environment, more than big buisness. They need food and we restrict them from farming. Indonesia need food and we have international watewrs in Australia that prevent themn from fishing , but a select one or two big buisnessmen, run the entire Torres Straight fishing industry. OH well I get a wage, why should I care.

Listen to yourself and think like a human rather than some being that believes it has all the rights.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 07:37 am
@urangutan,
urangutan;81210 wrote:
Xris this better dead than red mentality is outdated. I am not an Islamic sympathiser. I do not believe for one moment that they are any more innocent than our western civilisations, but you want to claim that, them and their religion and their desire to rule the world is what brings the peace you fought so hard to create for yourself at the expense of others undone. Who ruled Indo-China following world war II. Who was ousted from India, Malay, China, Singapore, countless other nations in Africa, and Asia, at a struggle at a cost. We finished fighting a war to rid the world of dictatorship and oppression and there we were gunning for our own intrests once again.

Was it the attrocities that forced a closure to China trade or was it the simple desire to punish them for kicking out the wealth interest in the nation. Why did America ban trade with Vietnam, following that war. They were the righteous government. Of the people for the people, just not the ones who could strike the best bargain. Don't talk to me like you deserve a peace that little rest of the world has. With no thanks to any of us fanatical Christians, Muslims, Consumerists, or whatever greed, inflicted hysteria, that controls us, has done.

I would sell chainsaws to Brazilians at a real cheap price, in fact i would give them away, including the fuel, so that we realised that poverty, is deforesting the environment, more than big buisness. They need food and we restrict them from farming. Indonesia need food and we have international watewrs in Australia that prevent themn from fishing , but a select one or two big buisnessmen, run the entire Torres Straight fishing industry. OH well I get a wage, why should I care.

Listen to yourself and think like a human rather than some being that believes it has all the rights.
Dont try and widen the debate to secure your twisted views on terrorism.You make silly statements of who is the real bully boy and then run away when confronted with the truth.No one in history can look back and say we acted with others interests at heart.No one is saying there are many injustices but condoning violence by reminding us of history is just stupid and naive.
0 Replies
 
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 08:23 am
@Arif phil,
Is 1946 history, is 1970, if so then so is yesterday. How ignorant you are. By the way, you brought up the history lesson. I just ran my own tale of it. I certainly don't call post WWII, history. I call it yesterday.

I have tried to tell you that killing all things that move in Afghanistan is not the solution. I have at least tried a suggestion, I have said that we are involved, even agreed that that includes Australia. All you have thought about is killing the enemy, the loss of those there killing and how ordinary Afghani have some kind of an opinion of certain things. You want to call me out.

Where would we be without chess.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2009 09:50 am
@urangutan,
urangutan;81217 wrote:
Is 1946 history, is 1970, if so then so is yesterday. How ignorant you are. By the way, you brought up the history lesson. I just ran my own tale of it. I certainly don't call post WWII, history. I call it yesterday.

I have tried to tell you that killing all things that move in Afghanistan is not the solution. I have at least tried a suggestion, I have said that we are involved, even agreed that that includes Australia. All you have thought about is killing the enemy, the loss of those there killing and how ordinary Afghani have some kind of an opinion of certain things. You want to call me out.

Where would we be without chess.
If you want to have decent debate im your man but if you want to state rhetoric without regard to the facts then good byeeee.
0 Replies
 
 

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