War in Afghanistan

@Arif phil,

i live in india now but i am an american citizen who disagrees with its foreign policy. i was against the invasion of afghanistan from the beginning, against intervention with the government of saddam hussein and now looking back i can say terrorism has increased dramatically since those policies were put in place. i am aware of a lot of deaths of civilians and the destruction of the infrastructure and quality of life of the remaining citizens of both countries.

1 Reply

@Arif phil,

Well, I know the war is a ridiculous waste of money. The U.S. should have learned a lesson from the Soviet Union and their war with Afghanistan, and that it is impossible to win a war there. Due to the ridiculous amount of money spent on the "war on terror", the U.S. cannot afford social programs for its own people. It is ridiculous that defense is often ignored as a spending measure that is hampered by corruption and waste, but things like health care are things that are seen as things that we cannot afford.

1 Reply

@Theaetetus,

Terrorism has not increased since the invasion.The invasion of Afghanistan was prompted by terrorism.With training camps situated there we had no alternative.We now see Pakistan on the verge of collapse due to the same bunch of nutters who dont respect others freedoms to decide their destiny.My problem with the war is, we are not doing enough and we need to talk to the moderate,moderate as in a degree of moderation,taliban.
A political answer will have to found and it will only be the Afghanistan people empowered by us that can resolve this.
The improvements made for the average Afghans are not sufficient or coming quickly enough in my opinion.This is mainly due to those who promised aid not acting quickly enough.

0 Replies

@Arif phil,

I think this will help understanding the situation.
Descent into Chaos: The United States and the Failure of Nation Building in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Central Asia

2 Replies

@Arif phil,

I think we are all aware of difficulties of safe havens in Pakistan but history has moved on.Can America or anyone invade Pakistan with or without the pakistan governments approval.

0 Replies

@Arif phil,

Arif;79448 wrote:

I think this will help understanding the situation.
Descent into Chaos: The United States and the Failure of Nation Building in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Central Asia

thanks for the link-i feel that i should have known about it, but i didnt. unfortunately i am on dialup and i have trouble downloading and watching videos. i dont see there is a text of this particular subject in the caption above, but there are other articles in full text. i would like to know what they have to say about palestine...couldnt find anything on that, though.

0 Replies

@Arif phil,

The war was clearly a waste of money, but there are countries who expect our help. It was wrong to invade, and terrorists (despite being dangerous) were often mistreated. But we are forgetting that it wasn't the only thing that lead to the economic crisis. It all began with Richard Nixon imposing wage and price controls in '71, causing severe cost-push inflation shocks and rise in the price of commodities. Following soon after was the 1973 oil crisis, where OPEC imposed restrictions, Constraining the supply of oil. We encountered a rebound in the 80's, when energy efficiency increased, but stagflation had already set in by then. When Clinton 'put ice on the wound' of inflation, it drastically decreased unemployment, raised Aggregate Supply, and lowered prices. In the 21st century, stagflation returned due to another cost-push shock. The 9/11 attacks also crippled the economy and caught us off-guard, and it basically lead up to our accumulated deficit. The war in Afghanistan, however, was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was wrong to go into war, but there was no choice other than to risk another act of terrorism.

1 Reply

@Leonard,

The war in Afghanistan has not ended terrorism. While the US has not suffered an attack on US soil since the invasion, other countries continue to suffer attacks.

Afghanistan was our fault in the first place - we aided the Afghanis against the Russians, and then ignored the necessary nation building in that country, as others have mentioned; without education, especially, the country was bound to slide into increasingly radical hands.

Of course, it all goes back to colonialism, anyway. We're just the modern British using different methods.

2 Replies

@Didymos Thomas,

Its a complex problem that religion has played a part in.We see once again fundamentalist selecting scripture to validate their hatred.
I feel for those average Afghans who would leave their country and turn west at the drop of a hat.I often wonder how you separate men and women of a certain persuasion from those who desire peace and security.
Is it our responsibility to secure it for them?i would love for that certain scripture to become fact.The meek shall inherit the earth.
Soldiers are dying because they believe they are helping,should we deny their sacrifice.If peace is our objective is that wrong?

1 Reply

@xris,

Fundamentalism is a reactionary movement - and we have to ask 'what are they reacting to?'. The answer seems to be the western intervention that has systematically destroyed their civilization and way of life over the past few centuries.

And I doubt that the average Afghani would leave for the west "at the drop of a hat" - most, I gather, would rather stay in their native land and help make their nation and thriving culture once again, rather than abandon their culture. Remember, fundamentalist and otherwise, there is a deep seated suspicion and dislike for the west in that country - and you really can't blame them after everything the west has done to them.

We should not deny the sacrifice of the well intentioned, but we should also remember that their sacrifice is made for the sake of a neo-imperialistic aim. By and large, these men and women are duped into fighting this war, duped by nationalistic rah-rah and lack of opportunity at home. If our objective was peace, then perhaps I would be more sympathetic to the interventionist cause - however, I do not believe that peace is the real aim. Instead, it seems to me that the aim is to bolster and secure power for certain nations involved in the operation, namely, my own nation. This is international politics, not a love in.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas;80578 wrote:

Fundamentalism is a reactionary movement - and we have to ask 'what are they reacting to?'. The answer seems to be the western intervention that has systematically destroyed their civilization and way of life over the past few centuries.

And I doubt that the average Afghani would leave for the west "at the drop of a hat" - most, I gather, would rather stay in their native land and help make their nation and thriving culture once again, rather than abandon their culture. Remember, fundamentalist and otherwise, there is a deep seated suspicion and dislike for the west in that country - and you really can't blame them after everything the west has done to them.

We should not deny the sacrifice of the well intentioned, but we should also remember that their sacrifice is made for the sake of a neo-imperialistic aim. By and large, these men and women are duped into fighting this war, duped by nationalistic rah-rah and lack of opportunity at home. If our objective was peace, then perhaps I would be more sympathetic to the interventionist cause - however, I do not believe that peace is the real aim. Instead, it seems to me that the aim is to bolster and secure power for certain nations involved in the operation, namely, my own nation. This is international politics, not a love in.

I dont know where you live or what other forums you inhabit but the uk has more trouble keeping illegal Iraqis out of Britain than any other nationalists.At the moment Afghans have not found a route out of their country but it wont be long before we see another exodus.
I have direct contact with a certain british regiment and the sentiment you are expressing is not what you find in the ranks of british soldiers.An open political debate is always a necessity in the british army.
Most afghans would like a stable life style and to evict the Taliban but alternatively live in the west.This is a fact not propaganda.

1 Reply

@xris,

Any time you make a person's home a war zone, they will try to leave. But whether or not they would prefer to live in their home country, in peace, or come to the west, in peace, is another matter.

The US has a great many middle easterners who do come here and who try to come here. But if you talk to them, they are here to get away from the violence, and would like to be home in peace.

So I agree with you - they would like to live at home in peace, but if that is not possible, then of course they will go wherever life is stable.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas;80752 wrote:

Any time you make a person's home a war zone, they will try to leave. But whether or not they would prefer to live in their home country, in peace, or come to the west, in peace, is another matter.

The US has a great many middle easterners who do come here and who try to come here. But if you talk to them, they are here to get away from the violence, and would like to be home in peace.

So I agree with you - they would like to live at home in peace, but if that is not possible, then of course they will go wherever life is stable.

The real point im making, is they dont want to go to neighbouring Islamic states, they see compassion even in our intervention.We make an impact through our personal contact.You underestimate the good will of our troops.They are not goons doing their masters wishes,they want to make a difference,they want to see girls able to be educated and teachers not executed for the same desires.We give them hope for the necessities of life and we sacrifice our boys for that cause.I am humbled by their sacrifice.I cry for everyone of them and the innocent who are embroiled in this conflict.

1 Reply

@Arif phil,

Infrastructure, now there is a strange word. What does it mean.

I know what it meant in the aftermath of world war II, in Japan, the same in the southern Korean peninsula. What does it mean in Afghanistan. How on earth can you end a war that is not a war.

When we learn how to enrich a civilisation, rather than cultivate it, maybe our chance of peace and their hope for growth, will walk hand in hand. If we do not deal with the head of the snake, the amounting sacrifices will not just be in vain, they may well be credited as a genocide, reminiscant of the war in Vietnam. Fancy talk of culture and free thinking will amount to nought, if we do not provide adequate solutions through the environment.

0 Replies

@xris,

xris;80767 wrote:

The real point im making, is they dont want to go to neighbouring Islamic states, they see compassion even in our intervention.We make an impact through our personal contact.You underestimate the good will of our troops.They are not goons doing their masters wishes,they want to make a difference,they want to see girls able to be educated and teachers not executed for the same desires.We give them hope for the necessities of life and we sacrifice our boys for that cause.I am humbled by their sacrifice.I cry for everyone of them and the innocent who are embroiled in this conflict.

This aspect of the psychological warfare is not yet exploited by the US and NATO. Neither an average Afghan/Pashtun can have the perception as long as the efforts are translated in to some concrete measures.

0 Replies

@Arif phil,

Arif, I agree with your point concerning "concrete measures" and I would like it if you could elaborate. It is however a "psychological warfare" but not where it is being fought. We the viewers are being duped into believing it is a war against terror, that is psychological.

1 Reply

@urangutan,

urangutan;80910 wrote:

Arif, I agree with your point concerning "concrete measures" and I would like it if you could elaborate. It is however a "psychological warfare" but not where it is being fought. We the viewers are being duped into believing it is a war against terror, that is psychological.

So you are duped?so what are our reasons for our financial burdens and our sacrifice?Tell me ide love to know..
Its not just a few that committed themselves but then avoid the sacrifice.Muslim countries are supposed to have committed themselves but their hoped for assistance is extremely limited.If Muslim countries had taken the initiative, it would not have been seen as a west inspired invasion.They need to be seen given financial assistance at least.Its in their interest to, that extremist and terrorist do not have control of Afghanistan.Terrorism effects Muslim countries as much as any western targets.Pakistan today and tomorrow, who knows what country these extremists will infiltrate.

0 Replies

@Arif phil,

Financial burdens. Mate, I don't give a fat rats about the burden of imigrants to your shores nor the finances of the Mother country. If you want to believe you are fighting terror then be my guest. The truth is, you are a colonialist force no matter how you wage it, until you offer the solution that is innevitable. That is unlikely because you do not have one and what it is would not be good buisness.

2 Replies

@urangutan,

Quote:

Arif, I agree with your point concerning "concrete measures" and I would like it if you could elaborate. It is however a "psychological warfare" but not where it is being fought. We the viewers are being duped into believing it is a war against terror, that is psychological.

Quote:

The truth is, you are a colonialist force no matter how you wage it, until you offer the solution that is inevitable.

We Pashtuns/Afghans have been subjected to this terror for the past two centuries. The worst form of this terror we witnessed during Afghan Aberrance (our intellectuals do not called it a war or Jihad). Then the second phase was the region of terror inflicted by the Mujahidin Commanders (the brain children of CIA & ISI) after the Soviet withdrew and the US abandoned Afghanistan. The third phase of this terror was the reign of Talbian (the brain child of ISI). The fourth phase of this terror is the surge of Talibanization in NWFP and FATA. We grew and educated in this terror and we are still suffering from it. For us the truth about this terror is highly subjective and we have reached the conclusion that we have to find our own version of the truth. We have started believing we have to construct our own discourses. That is why all democratic and secular political forces welcome the US and international community to clean the mess that had created long ago. For us US and NATO presence in Afghanistan is a blessing in disguise. With Obama in office the situation for us is getting better. It all depends upon the political and economic stability of Afghanistan and empowering the Pashtuns/Afghans through huge massive funding in terms of development and better civic facilities.

We don't see American as colonialist provided they sincerely undo what they had done to us during their support for the religious terrorists and Pakistani military to fight the Soviet.

0 Replies

War in Afghanistan

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know