An electron is a posit?

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;130391 wrote:

It's over your head. Whether you might have agreed with Kojeve or not, his conceptions are beyond you. That's cool, man. But some of us actually like philosophy. Some of us are capable of enthusiasm. Others appear to exist parasitically, negating (ineffectually) what they cannot master.

You claim to be interested in etymology. Look up the etymology of "enthusiasm".
I am afraid that even in philosophy, you have to know stuff, and have skills and intelligence. Even philosophy does not give one a free pass to be silly and stupid.

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;130395 wrote:

Even philosophy does not give one a free pass to be silly and stupid.

I'm not so sure.

1 Reply

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;130399 wrote:

I'm not so sure.

I know. Alas!........................

0 Replies

@fast,

I too am enthusiastic. I fly kites that others appear to enjoy taking shots at. I admit my arguments are often faulty, but I will never apologize for my enthusiasm.

1 Reply

@jeeprs,

jeeprs;130440 wrote:

I too am enthusiastic. I fly kites that others appear to enjoy taking shots at. I admit my arguments are often faulty, but I will never apologize for my enthusiasm.

Can you be enthusiastic and still not have faulty arguments? That might be better.

2 Replies

@fast,

To get back on subject, I would just like to emphasize that it seems to me that our experience of "electrons" will always be a human invention-discovery and not some ideal non-human perfectly objective view. It seems that we are bound to impose our human tendencies of thought on the non-human reality-behind-our-interpretation. An electron seems to be a posit, the positioning of a mental model by the means of equations and the explanatory concepts that tell us how to measure and what we are measuring. Our human brain and our human culture are all have to meet the inferred/assumed "nonhuman" reality behind our experience.

But this inference/assumption ("nonhuman reality") is actually still just human experience. Noumena is a limiting concept. Noumena is our mental-model for what lies beneath our mental models. Noumena are like those sea monsters drawn on the edge of old maps.

0 Replies

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;130442 wrote:

Can you be enthusiastic and still not have faulty arguments? That might be better.

Do you believe yourself to be god kenneth?

If not then stop acting like it... try to have an open mind or you're just going to hold a grudge against an argument because you initially didn't get it.

1 Reply

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;130442 wrote:

Can you be enthusiastic and still not have faulty arguments? That might be better.

My arguments might improve if the quality of the criticism was higher. But I guess we will all just have to make do.

0 Replies

@Scottydamion,

Scottydamion;130463 wrote:

Do you believe yourself to be god kenneth?

If not then stop acting like it... try to have an open mind or you're just going to hold a grudge against an argument because you initially didn't get it.

Open mind is great, but empty head, not so great.

---------- Post added 02-21-2010 at 12:04 AM ----------

jeeprs;130499 wrote:

My arguments might improve if the quality of the criticism was higher. But I guess we will all just have to make do.

You, yourself, said that your arguments were often faulty. I didn't. So don't blame me. I pointed out only that enthusiasm need not lead to faulty arguments. Do you disagree?

0 Replies

@fast,

The faultiness of arguments seems to be a matter of taste. This is so obvious to me that I can't help but smile as I write it. The belief in a some neutral standpoint is about as sophisticated as the belief in Santa Clause. <--A non-neutral assessment.

1 Reply

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;130506 wrote:

The faultiness of arguments seems to be a matter of taste. This is so obvious to me that I can't help but smile as I write it. The belief in a some neutral standpoint is about as sophisticated as the belief in Santa Clause. <--A non-neutral assessment.

So, if someone argues that if Enrico is a German, then Enrico is a European, but that since Enrico is not a German (he is an Italian) therefore he is not a European, whether that is a faulty argument is a matter of taste?

(That, by the way, is a clear counterexample to your position). That faulty argument is an example of the fallacy of denying the antecedent. Look it up.

0 Replies

@fast,

I'm still waiting for an answer from Fast, so I'll sit out the next few rounds thanks. You guys go ahead without me.

0 Replies

@fast,

Not only is an electron a posit, but the electron-as-posit is a posit. To examine the so-called concrete real is to examine that part of the total real that is made up of our thoughts on this concrete real. Science limits its self-consciousness for reasons I find justifiable. But this limitation need not apply to philosophy.

1 Reply

@fast,

But the point about Quantum Mechanics is that it has taken the argument out of the realm of literary criticism and philosophy, and actually provided SCIENTIFIC GROUNDS for it. I don't know if the contributor that wrote the OP acknowledges this or has an argument against it. That is what I am waiting to see.

1 Reply

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;130517 wrote:

Not only is an electron a posit, but the electron-as-posit is a posit. To examine the so-called concrete real is to examine that part of the total real that is made up of our thoughts on this concrete real. Science limits its self-consciousness for reasons I find justifiable. But this limitation need not apply to philosophy.

That electrons are posits is not itself a posit. It is not something we are assuming is a fact. That the electron is posited is a fact, not an assumption. Consult any book on the philosophy of science.

0 Replies

@fast,

Is anyone here, apart from me, a non-scientist, acquainted with the ideas of 'the probability wave' and 'the collapse of the wave function'?

1 Reply

@jeeprs,

jeeprs;130536 wrote:

Is anyone here, apart from me, a non-scientist, acquainted with the ideas of 'the probability wave' and 'the collapse of the wave function'?

I am, but it's been awhile. And I'm no expert.

0 Replies

@fast,

well it seems to have a direct bearing on the question of whether electrons exist. Anyway I shall wait.

1 Reply

@jeeprs,

jeeprs;130523 wrote:

But the point about Quantum Mechanics is that it has taken the argument out of the realm of literary criticism and philosophy, and actually provided SCIENTIFIC GROUNDS for it.

I see science as grounded in first philosophy, or metaphysics. The scientific method cannot be self-justified? I don't think there is rigid separation. Could the math function in the absence of concepts that connect the math to experience/measurement? However, I will tone down my less-scientific interjections.:bigsmile:

---------- Post added 02-21-2010 at 01:00 AM ----------

jeeprs;130540 wrote:

well it seems to have a direct bearing on the question of whether electrons exist. Anyway I shall wait.

Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on context. What "exists" is supposed to mean. I say so respectfully. I can fully understand the desire for more tech talk.:bigsmile:

0 Replies

@jeeprs,

jeeprs;130540 wrote:

well it seems to have a direct bearing on the question of whether electrons exist. Anyway I shall wait.

An elementary particle which is the negatively charged constituent of ordinary matter. The electron is the lightest known particle which possesses an electric charge. Its rest mass is cathode rays, the electron was the first elementary particle to be identified.
The charge of the electron is −coulomb. The sign of the electron's charge is negative by convention, and that of the equally charged proton is positive. This is a somewhat unfortunate convention, because the flow of electrons in a conductor is thus opposite to the conventional direction of the current.

Why would anyone believe that electrons don't exist? They have properties like rest mass. And whatever has properties exists. As Descartes said so eloquently, "nothing has no properties".

0 Replies

An electron is a posit?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know