meaning is God.

@Ola,

I disagree...We learn to look for meaning...But we actually confuse being with meaning, like pavlovs dogs, we respond to the meaning because we associate it with the being... But we can only see being against what is apparently a meaningless background when we know what it means...To learn what any thing is we have to understand what it means... What is one and one... Reason would say that we must know what we are talking about, pennies, or cows, or stars to know the answer; but we know one and one means two, no matter what wwe are talking about... Do you see what I mean???

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido wrote:

I disagree...We learn to look for meaning...But we actually confuse being with meaning, like pavlovs dogs, we respond to the meaning because we associate it with the being... But we can only see being against what is apparently a meaningless background when we know what it means...To learn what any thing is we have to understand what it means... What is one and one... Reason would say that we must know what we are talking about, pennies, or cows, or stars to know the answer; but we know one and one means two, no matter what wwe are talking about... Do you see what I mean???

The meaning of something is its relation to the individual. Something of which a person is aware, necessarily has meaning to that person. The manner in which something is employed is its meaning. Anything of which one is aware is being employed, as a physical tool, a thought, etc.

1 Reply

@Ola,

Ola;45517 wrote:

There is only meaning if there is a God.... just the possibility of a God outweighs anything humans can come up with

If that's the case, then I'm doing pretty well without any meaning.

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@BrightNoon,

BrightNoon wrote:

The meaning of something is its relation to the individual. Something of which a person is aware, necessarily has meaning to that person. The manner in which something is employed is its meaning. Anything of which one is aware is being employed, as a physical tool, a thought, etc.

You are abstracting the abstraction... Meaning is in its relation...No; meaning is relation... Consider it as value, more meaning as more value... The meaning of a dollar is 100 cents... You are valuing the reality...You are finding meaning...And I know it is a small distinction..

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@Ola,

Whether there is any transcendental meaning to life is very interesting question and it is one, where no answer can be known. But I want to be able to live with what I know and that alone. As Camus said 'Knowing whether or not one can live without appeal is all that interests me.'

It is very important to note the difference between meaning and any possible transcendental meaning. It is clear that there is what we can all meaning within in the world. We can see this in the way that people talk and act that there are many pursuit's and passions within in the World that bring subjective meaning to people's live's. There are many worldy passions that bring pleasure to existence, this we can know. It is our job to search for our own personal subjective meaning within in the World. And this enough for me.

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@gre107,

gre107 wrote:

Why does there have to be a meaning?
Why are those that feel that they need meaning?

Why does there need to be a God?
Why can't there be many Gods?

There is nothing that has ever been said by any of the Gods that Men did not say first.

Men create Gods. Gods do not create men.

No, Men didn't create Gods. I don't understand why a creature like you that finds himself to be a very tiny temporal spec in the universe,who also happens to be alive and to have been given life without a choice is to think of himself us the measure of what and how to live. Men are free, but that doesn't mean he is the measure and giver of meaning. Man who tries to gain objective genuine knowledge, do transcend subjectivity by observing immutable laws governing the world. The laws were there and independent of any mind, science functions not as a giver of the law, it simply discovers,decodes,understands, what was previously and always there,Laws that precedes and are independent of any systematic body of thought. But nevertheless, you have the freedom to not align your life to any of these laws, but that doesn't mean man's thought escapes the immutable and absolute.

1 Reply

@Patty phil,

Patty;48551 wrote:

No, Men didn't create Gods.

Not even some of them?

Patty wrote:

Men are free, but that doesn't mean he is the measure and giver of meaning.

Of course we are. We are our own measure and our own giver of meaning. If we see meaning up in the sky, it's simply a reflection of us.

1 Reply

@Aedes,

Aedes wrote:

Not even some of them?

Of course we are. We are our own measure and our own giver of meaning. If we see meaning up in the sky, it's simply a reflection of us.

I was wrong. Some are, but it is not a case in point which makes God purely subjective.If man knows nothing objectively, and everything falls ultimately subjective, then all knowledge falls down to only knowledge of the self, it will never have any ontological value whatsoever. Man has the capacity to transcend subjectivity, discern principles of the real world, the possession of cold objectivity that can be summoned by the vigor of subjectivity. I do not deny the existence of subjectivity, but it is not an end in itself for it seeks and acts on objects distinct of itself, and therefore must know what the objective character every objects possesses before it can properly act. This objective character or essence can and is only possible to be abstracted by an intellect, which can penetrate the essences of things.

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@Patty phil,

Humans are also social, and from a functional point of view (not ontological) we surmount subjectivity through sharing. That doesn't eliminate bias or error, but the more important the issue at hand, the more deliberately one can work to do so. Subjectivity doesn't eliminate the possibility of agreement.

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@Ola,

Yes, call it intersubjectivity based on a shared ontology.

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@Kreist,

Hi all!

If there is a god why did not he/she/it endow the physical world with meaning, the physical world only has meaning as it relates to us, the needs and wants of our own biology project meaning onto the physcial world.

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@Ola,

My two cents is worth about a penny.

But I have to ask exactly what the author of the thread meant by 'meaning'.

If they meant to address what the goal of living this life should be than I am a staunt proponent of harmonious community. I thoroughly believe that before the human will ever evolve into any improvement they must first learn how to cohabitate.

IMHO, meaning would then be to create in you the person that you would think would be someone that you would want to live with. Too many of us live life as though we are the focus and improvement has to do with enhancing our lives, when in reality that would be a great goal if we were the only ones on the planet.

But when we live side by side with 6 billion other people we have to realize that we are more than individuals, we are humanity as well.

So meaning should take that into consdiration before we place ourselves above everything else.

1 Reply

@Ola,

Hiya Boag,

I would not say that the Creator, whatever it is, creates meaning, rather I would suggest that it designed humans to create meaning. The human becomes what it desires based upon the choices it makes. Tis true that many fall victim to what seems unjust circumstances in life, but regardless of the toil we always have a choice in how we deal with these situations. And that is what makes us who we become and it is by striving to be such a person that brings the meaning.

Whatever can be thought up about the Creator, it is usually agreed upon that the human does have the freedom to act one way or another in most cases.

1 Reply

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder wrote:

Hiya Boag,

I would not say that the Creator, whatever it is, creates meaning, rather I would suggest that it designed humans to create meaning. The human becomes what it desires based upon the choices it makes. Tis true that many fall victim to what seems unjust circumstances in life, but regardless of the toil we always have a choice in how we deal with these situations. And that is what makes us who we become and it is by striving to be such a person that brings the meaning.

Whatever can be thought up about the Creator, it is usually agreed upon that the human does have the freedom to act one way or another in most cases.

Pathfinder, Smile

In a sense you are right, humanity does not just operate on instinct, but man out of his biological needs does thus desire, wants are a rather different matter, and that is where we start thinking out of the box of instinct, but god I would suggest does come from biological need thus desire for security. You say we always have a choice and that is true, we however do not have the power not to chose, for even inaction read non-reaction to an object or circumstance is still a reaction to our environment/context. Biology is the source of all meaning, indeed it is thus that apparent reality is created.

1 Reply

@boagie,

wouldnt not choosing be the action of not choosing?

Standing still as opposed to moving forward. standing still is still a choice.

I am unsure how this relates to bioligy though Boag.

You really enjoyed those dissection classes didn't you? LOL

1 Reply

@Ola,

Ola wrote:

There is only meaning if there is a God.
Philosophers and scientists have no answer to the meaning of life.
But if there is one (God) he/she/it does know.
And therefore just the possibility of a God outweighs anything humans can come up with. (You are at a junction. You can take a road that goes nowhere or an unknown one. The logical choice is the unknown road.)

But who knows what God (is)?

I know the meaning of life is simply to live and the best way possible is to live as One. God is One too.
Then according to you I am neither a philosopher or a scientist but simply One God, or truly I am God am One.
Thanks I like that too.
And as for roads I think I'll take the road less traveled, that made All the differences equal to Frost and me.
Oneness or God is down that road too!

=
MJA

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@Pathfinder,

Hi Pathfinder, Smile

That observation came to me when I was discussing freewill with someone, to me it infers the nature of man as a reactionary organism. I have played with the idea that there is indeed no such thing as human action, that it is in fact all reaction. It has proved a fruitful premise. Example all of the diseases of humanity are of a reactionary nature and it certainly puts a new slant of the concept of freewill. PS: I like you Avatar!!

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@Ola,

This is one of those threads of how to find dirt in a mud puddle... All we get with life is meaning...Okay; then sure, God is meaning... Point your finger and what do you see but some particular meaning??? It is everywhere and everything... Surely, we have meaningful, and meaningless; but not one single thing can be thought of as without meaning... We even see nothing as having a certain meaning, abstractly; but what else is meaning, but an abstraction of the reality which we cannot conceive of without the medium of meaning???

2 Replies

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

Hi Pathfinder,

That observation came to me when I was discussing freewill with someone, to me it infers the nature of man as a reactionary organism. I have played with the idea that there is indeed no such thing as human action, that it is in fact all reaction. It has proved a fruitful premise. Example all of the diseases of humanity are of a reactionary nature and it certainly puts a new slant of the concept of freewill. PS: I like you Avatar!!

Just curious how it has been fruiotful Boag.

I can see hwo humans react to being plagued but I am not sure how they cause the disease through reaction.

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido wrote:

This is one of those threads of how to find dirt in a mud puddle... All we get with life is meaning...Okay; then sure, God is meaning... Point your finger and what do you see but some particular meaning??? It is everywhere and everything... Surely, we have meaningful, and meaningless; but not one single thing can be thought of as without meaning... We even see nothing as having a certain meaning, abstractly; but what else is meaning, but an abstraction of the reality which we cannot conceive of without the medium of meaning???

I suggest waiting for the sun to come out for a few hours!

1 Reply

meaning is God.

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