meaning is God.

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder wrote:

And why does that surprise you? What makes you think you would see any references to the origin of life and creatioon in a biology text book?

For something to be alive it requires life to enter it from somewhere. All the scientific things you are talking about are all secondary to the initiak spark of life.

How do you even possibly know that such a thing exists?

It's like the soul, like the end of the rainbow -- it's a metaphor. Why speak of it as if it's a substantive "thing"?

1 Reply

@Aedes,

What exactly are you suggesting does not exist?

We all know that life exists and had to come from somewhere? I cannot respond your question, it is too vague.

On one hand you are arguing the existence of such a thing, and then on the other hand you are asking how it can exist in the first place.

1 Reply

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder wrote:

What exactly are you suggesting does not exist?

A "spark of life" that one can speak of as if it exists, as opposed to being our poetic way of describing the je ne sais quoi that differentiates life from not-life.

Quote:

We all know that life exists and had to come from somewhere?

Life has certain characteristics that are all biologically mediated and all reducible to biological mechanisms, and the simplest sorts of organisms have shown us what the most basic such requirements are. No spark needed.

A computer needs a power supply, hard drive, processor, operating system, etc to work. Put it all together the right way and it will work. It doesn't need a "spark of computing".

1 Reply

@Aedes,

so you are saying that if you plug a pc into the outlet in an abondoned house it will run.

I think there needs to be a powerplant somewhere.

Are you saying that an amoeba can live simple with the elements of its biology?

Than what is the difference between a dead amoeba and a live one when both have exactly the same biological components? The simplest organisms still require that life giving force to be considered a living thing. Otherwise they are dead things.

It doesn't matter what one calls it, everything that is alive has that unknown life force in it that makes it alive. Biological components do not give life.

1 Reply

@Ola,

Just more components. Stick a solar panel and capacitor on a computer and you'll only require sunlight

1 Reply

@Aedes,

well I have yet to see the life form that can bring life to a creature with a solar panel.

Have you been watching too much Frankenstein again?

1 Reply

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder;50093 wrote:

well I have yet to see the life form that can bring life to a creature with a solar panel.

Pathfinder, meet Mr. Chloroplast. Mr. Chloroplast, meet Pathfinder. Mr. Chloroplast, and his distant cousin Mr. Cyanobacterium, are the Solar Panels of life on earth.

I never said "bring life". I said that these are necessary components for life. Computers need power -- if the source of electricity is solar panels or if it's a power plant with fossil fuels, then computers get power from the sun. Turns out that all cells (with the exception of archaebacteria living near deep sea vents) get their energy from the sun, too. It starts with photosynthetic organisms that use solar energy to convert carbon dioxide into simple sugars, which can then be broken down to produce energy. Humans eat plants, and ew eat animals that have eaten plants, so our energy comes from the sun too.

But I fear you're missing the point. My point is that living things are simply extremely complicated machines, composed of a lot of complicated, necessary parts. When they're working, they have the capacity to reproduce themselves, derive energy, and maintain homeostasis. Something dead can no longer do these things.

So if an amoeba is alive, it's a nice poetic little utterance to speak of its "life force", but that makes no more sense than saying a working car is endowed with "automotive force".

1 Reply

@Aedes,

comparing living beings with mechanical items is useless discussion.

But you also said:
QUOTE
"But I fear you're missing the point. My point is that living things are simply extremely complicated machines, composed of a lot of complicated, necessary parts. When they're working, they have the capacity to reproduce themselves, derive energy, and maintain homeostasis. Something dead can no longer do these things."UNQUOTE

Ahhh, Thank You for making my point exactly!

You are doing what they all do my friend, and that is simply evading the real sources. Solar panels are useless without the source of the sun, the sun is nothiong without the source that put it into place. There is always a " and where did that come from question".

What you call source, you limit to your perspective. What I call the Source has no limit.

1 Reply

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder;50103 wrote:

comparing living beings with mechanical items is useless discussion.

Correct. It's useless because the're only qualitatively different. It will be possible someday soon for humans to create a living thing from scratch. We already have a field of bioengineering called industrial microbiology in which we effectively turn microorganisms into industrial machines.

Pathfinder wrote:

Ahhh, Thank You for making my point exactly!

Ahhh, but we differ on the interpretation.

Pathfinder wrote:

There is always a " and where did that come from question".

There is no logical necessity for there to be a real phenomenon of "cause and effect", and therefore there is no logical necessity for there to be an ultimate cause.

Pathfinder wrote:

What I call the Source has no limit.

Physical possibilities are finite. Therefore so is your "Source".

0 Replies

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder wrote:

The meaning is found in the character that a person develops as they face these challenges you point out.

Sound like a personal opinion. Subjective opinion.
What is the truth?

Pathfinder wrote:

We can live as though life has no meaning and concern ourselves with nothing because life is meaningless to us, or we can choose to buiold our character and identity with integrity as though it does matter who and what we are and live our life as though it is full of meaning.

Does that mean that you accept that there really isn't any meaning?

Pathfinder wrote:

It is the difference between living as caterpillar unfilled, or as the butterfly which experiences the great metamorphosis of creation.

Not in the end. The question isn't if we can create some personal meaning but if there is some real meaning - An answer to the question 'what is the meaning of life' that can't be refuted.

If there isn't any meaning but there must be meaning - then we can create our own meaning:
The question 'what is the meaning of life' is asked within the frame of 'there is no meaning' and therefore, because it is universally known/understood, that answer becomes redundant. - The question 'what is the meaning of life' is asked knowing the 'there is no meaning' answer. So the question becomes 'what should I do with my life' or 'what gives your life meaning' instead.

1 Reply

@Ola,

YO!

Is not meaning the emergent quality of relations, while the physcial world is devoid of meaning in the absence of a conscious subejct, it is the physical world as object in relation to our biology that any form of meaning thus arises. That meaning arising from relations is an all embracing fact of our existence. Nothing in and of itself has meaning, but only in relation to, so, should not all subjects/persons realize that the creation of meaning in ones life is to be done with intention. A life that might otherwise be a relative wasteland, with intent might transform that wasteland into a fertile garden of meaningful abundance. It should be a conscious matter, and not just something which might or might not happen to you in this life. Passivity in this sense, is a road of poverty.

0 Replies

@Ola,

If the question is redundant than why is it the same question that has been on the lips of every man and woman for thousands of years?

That fact alone could define the meaning of life as the continuous struggle to find meaning in life.

2 Replies

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder, Smile

I could not agree more, but to often in this culture anyway people are passive, people wait for meaning to come to them instead of realizing they can create it. Even when something meaningful is before one, it is not always recognized for what it is, anything you can enter into a relationship with has potential to nurture meaningfulness.

1 Reply

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder wrote:

If the question is redundant than why is it the same question that has been on the lips of every man and woman for thousands of years?

That fact alone could define the meaning of life as the continuous struggle to find meaning in life.

The question is only asked by those with the time, wealth, and the luxury to ask it.... Does that mean others do not find meaning because they do not ask... For most people, the reason, that is, the meaning of life is obvious since death- anti life, is so near always.... But the climb to wealth, or knowledge, or freedom from want is like a climb to a mountain top, and what is that??? When all that is left is the climb down... When the view is obscured by clouds... When the anticipation only gives way to reality, then meaning is wanting.... Everyone else living a hand to mouth existence do not have time for meaning....For them it cannot be abstracted... Life does not require a clock or a calender when it is all immediate....

Many of the people who reach a point in their life when they can ask for meaning really do need it...Often their pasts are strewn with human wreckage, and some times their own relationships... Think of what some people must sacrifice to have wealth or power...How many bail on their relationships...How many self destruct before they ever reach the point of wondering where the meaning went.... Some times, if people consider their lives before the event, and give rule to their lives, and decide how far they will go to have success, and decide what price success is worth will decide not to pay it... I think I could have been more successful...I have always lived a considered life, and so I would not exploit any to have a nickle... So I lived on my earnings... Which is to say by my own skills and earnings...When I had nothing I considered meaning... Now that I have little more than nothing, meaning does not trouble me in the least...

0 Replies

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

Pathfinder,

I could not agree more, but to often in this culture anyway people are passive, people wait for meaning to come to them instead of realizing they can create it. Even when something meaningful is before one, it is not always recognized for what it is, anything you can enter into a relationship with has potential to nurture meaningfulness.

I do not think you can create it...I do think you can project meaning onto things no meaningful.... What has meaning is life, and that is a fountain of meaning....So as long as we have life we can say this or that which does not contribute to life is meaningful.... As we approach or ends we find what is essential, and regret all vapid pursuits, and it is those who have most wasted their lives after inessentials that most find themselves looking for meaning....

Let me give you an example...I know these folks with a Chinese restaurant...I have been working with their son, and with the grandmother with their English...Now, I also had a book on the US constitution, today, because the Mother wants to prepare for her citizenship test....The son, playing around, put some cards inside the book... I went to pick up the book, and he tried to retrieve his cards.. Part of the back cover got ripped, and I chastized this Child.... Now I love books, and I have given a few, and loaned a few, And having receive none back, I sort of regret the loss of every one... It is safe to say I love my books even while I beat the dirty dog crap out of them for their fruit....But that poor child burst into the most inconsolable tears, that it broke my heart... What stupid book is worth a child's tear???. Every child will find in life so many reasons to cry that they will need every tear, and they should not be wasted for no good reason... I find books meaningful because they are my education, but it is a poor education if it does not prevent my doing wrong...

1 Reply

@Fido,

Fido,

Yes indeed, in the realm of meaningful things, the human dimension must take priority. We can create meaning, something that otherwise might be treated with indifference is brought into a mutual relation, a give and take, you just know it has to be meaningful on some level. Some things we value simply because they are valueable to our biology, food, shelter, ect.., On the human dimension one must give as well as recieve in order to maintain a meaningful relationship. Actually when you think about it, if there is indeed no meaning to the physcial world without a subject, it must be the subject that gives whatever its meaning. It does sound like you have your priorities in the right order.

0 Replies

@Ola,

Primarily what we value is essential to our lives, and if reduced, meaning is life itself...If we have the basics...If life seems certain, then other sorts of things can seeem valuable, even essential... When a man's existence seems assured he begins to worry about the life of his children and the lives of their children....And laying aside wealth for future generations often leads to the destruction of whole societies so that what seems directly desirable often leads to an undesirable outcome.

0 Replies

@Ola,

Once again what everyone seems to be avoiding is the mystery of the unknown factors of this existence that create the environment for there to even be a meaning or void of meaning in the first place.

Fido hit on it for a second when he portrayed the climb to the mountaintop. Only he gave up his search when things became cloudy and that disappointment drew him to conclude that there must than be nothing meaningful beyond what he could not see through, and therefore nothing left except where he had already been. But the fact is that there IS something beyond the clouds. Just because we could not get there to see it does not mean it did not exist.

The unknown is out there waiting to be discovered. It is there in the origins of creation and the revelations of the universe that man would find his true meaning but our inability to get there causes us to cast aside its reality.

If life has meaning, the answers will not be found in the pinpoint of the universe we call home. Here at home, in this tiny little sector of a vast UNKNOWN PLACE, will find those experiences and situations that come about as we live this existence, because this is where we are, but the true answers are out there in the unknown. The Mystery of life and the Force behind it.

1 Reply

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder, Smile

Very true Pathfinder, we should not be brought to a stand still by any concrete terms, god is just a holding place for that great mystery. How we will overcome the limitations of our own biology in order to investigate further meanings is itself a mystery, for at present, if it is not relative to biological senses, it does tend to be meaningless too us. The virtual reality our biology constructs is a limitation as well a inabling factor.

0 Replies

@Ola,

I agree Boagie that science and biology have their benefits and can offer great insight to things that are attainable, but we should never make the mistake of thinking that they have all the answers or that there is nothing left to discover.

1 Reply

meaning is God.

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know