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Why does God permit evil????

 
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 10:40 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;125082 wrote:
I agree that certainly God is not benevolent in the comon sense aproach, but that does not mean that it is not Good or Necessary...Sufering is the measure for Pleausure and Beautty....Value rises from this necessary conflict, just like in an Econnomic Stock Market graphic...denying one results in denying the other, so there is no much point in complayning...if if not to etternally fight in the opposite direction, witch is the purpose of the entire "THING" in the first place...
Whose complaining? I'm telling you your god is not logical. What pleasure or joy did that child have to measure it against its pain and suffering? So we all get a measure of each, really? You appear unable to grasp my reasoning, is it a communication problem or a refusal to accept the significance of my question.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 10:48 am
@xris,


SIMPLE
!!!

---------- Post added 02-05-2010 at 11:51 AM ----------

IN ORDER TO BE, REALITY AS IT IS, IS NECESSARY ! ( like it or not )

---------- Post added 02-05-2010 at 11:59 AM ----------

From Thread to Thread, and from subject to subject, my vision is always self coherent to say the least...I wish the same could be said, from some of you here in the Forum...

...Anyway, such is life...:sarcastic:
xris
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 11:00 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;125091 wrote:
SIMPLE !!!

---------- Post added 02-05-2010 at 11:51 AM ----------

IN ORDER TO BE, REALITY AS IT IS, IS NECESSARY ! ( like it or not )
How can it compare, are you actually reading my posts? how could it even start to understand your view, if it had never experienced joy...Its suffering may not concern you in your comfy well balanced experience of life but it does me. It would make sense if we all had our share of both pleasure and pain but we dont do we? So how does that child warrant nothing but pain, is it gods want? I find these opinions a bit self serving and insular so you must excuse my anger.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 11:12 am
@xris,
xris;125097 wrote:
How can it compare, are you actually reading my posts? how could it even start to understand your view, if it had never experienced joy...Its suffering may not concern you in your comfy well balanced experience of life but it does me. It would make sense if we all had our share of both pleasure and pain but we dont do we? So how does that child warrant nothing but pain, is it gods want? I find these opinions a bit self serving and insular so you must excuse my anger.
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 11:20 am
@Alan McDougall,
I think we are all Aliens in the Eye of GOD. God is not matter, he created the Universum and parted Heaven and Earth. The Heavenly Man looked into the matter and Fell in love with Nature. etc.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 01:21 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;125102 wrote:
Portugal may have been rural and hard twenty years ago but your opportunity is more than any child born into poverty in Africa. Whats all this about the lesser the amplitude , pleasure, pain...are you actually reading my posts. This child has had no pleasure, do you hear me none at all. How can it amplify its pleasure , when it has had none. EQUILIBRIUM,in big letters does that make it more relevant? there is no equilibrium no balance. Tell me how that child benefited from your great ideology. I will stop lecturing when you stop preaching.
Amperage
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 01:24 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple;125046 wrote:
If god is all knowing, he would have known what was going to happen. If it was going to change gods mind, which that is what you are basically saying. The old laws are now trumped by the new law, it stands to reason that god felt the need to ratify the old law.
What you fail to realize was that failure WAS THE POINT of the old Law. God showed us that we could never attain righteousness by attempting to follow the Law alone. That it takes something more. He didn't change His mind. It was always part of the plan
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 01:24 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;125105 wrote:
I think we are all Aliens in the Eye of GOD. God is not matter, he created the Universum and parted Heaven and Earth. The Heavenly Man looked into the matter and Fell in love with Nature. etc.
Peps you constantly interject, without real explaination of your true intentions. One liners are fine but I would like to know more of your true feelings.

---------- Post added 02-05-2010 at 02:27 PM ----------

Amperage;125137 wrote:
What you fail to realize was that failure WAS THE POINT of the old Law. God showed us that we could never attain righteousness by attempting to follow the Law alone. That it takes something more. He didn't change His mind. It was always part of the plan
So when did he decide to stop interfering in mans evil intentions? Your telling me the god of the old testament is the same god Jesus spoke of?
Amperage
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 01:32 pm
@xris,
xris;125138 wrote:
So when did he decide to stop interfering in mans evil intentions? Your telling me the god of the old testament is the same god Jesus spoke of?
Yes that is what I am saying
0 Replies
 
hue-man
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 01:32 pm
@Caroline,
I realize that this post is very old and has come a long way, but let's try and bring it home. Let's see if we can find a simple way to answer this question.

The question is "Why does God permit evil?"

Now I'm assuming that by god the OP means an all-knowing and all-powerful supernatural agent that cares for and loves his creatures.

We live in a world where both the just and the unjust alike suffer. Suffering cannot be blamed on humanity alone, because suffering is also caused by other living organisms and inanimate objects. Based on our observations of the world we currently live in, I think we can come to the logical conclusion that such an agent does not exist.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 01:40 pm
@xris,
xris;125135 wrote:
Portugal may have been rural and hard twenty years ago but your opportunity is more than any child born into poverty in Africa. Whats all this about the lesser the amplitude , pleasure, pain...are you actually reading my posts. This child has had no pleasure, do you hear me none at all. How can it amplify its pleasure , when it has had none. EQUILIBRIUM,in big letters does that make it more relevant? there is no equilibrium no balance. Tell me how that child benefited from your great ideology. I will stop lecturing when you stop preaching.
Amperage
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 01:41 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;125142 wrote:
I realize that this post is very old and has come a long way, but let's try and bring it home. Let's see if we can find a simple way to answer this question.

The question is "Why does God permit evil?"

Now I'm assuming that by god the OP means an all-knowing and all-powerful supernatural agent that cares for and loves his creatures.

We live in a world where both the just and the unjust alike suffer. Suffering cannot be blamed on humanity alone, because suffering is also caused by other living organisms and inanimate objects. Based on our observations of the world we currently live in, I think we can come to the logical conclusion that such an agent does not exist.
you based your entire analysis on suffering and suffering alone. Yet you have not demonstrated in any way that suffering is evil. If you fail to make a distinction then I can understand your argument, however, I think you'll find there is a difference. And they are not inseparable. Not all suffering is evil and not all evil is suffering.
hue-man
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 01:54 pm
@Amperage,
Amperage;125146 wrote:
you based your entire analysis on suffering and suffering alone. Yet you have not demonstrated in any way that suffering is evil. If you fail to make a distinction then I can understand your argument, however, I think you'll find there is a difference. And they are not inseparable. Not all suffering is evil and not all evil is suffering.


The problem of evil is a part of the greater problem of suffering and misfortune. By evil I believe the OP means events (usually intentional) that cause harm to an agent. Suffering means to undergo or feel pain or distress. When the problem is understood in this context, a distinction between evil and suffering appears to be unnecessary.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 01:58 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;125148 wrote:
The problem of evil is a part of the greater problem of suffering and misfortune. By evil I believe the OP means events (usually intentional) that cause harm to an agent. Suffering means to undergo or feel pain or distress. When the problem is understood in this context, a distinction between evil and suffering appears to be unnecessary.


The question stands, I believe that pain and suffering as all things that exist are Necessary (so they are not Evil in Absolute)...Now the problem is how to explain them the best logical possible way...
hue-man
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 02:07 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;125151 wrote:
The question stands, I believe that pain and suffering as all things that exist are Necessary...the problem is how to explain them the best logical possible way...


Whether or not suffering is necessary in our world has no bearing on whether or not the question still stands. The reason for the sensation of pain can be explained by biological science and natural disasters can be explained by physical science, but that's not the point. If I understand the OP correctly, and I believe I do, he is going on the premise that this universe and its physical "laws" were created by an all-knowing, all-powerful, beneficent supernatural agent that loves its creatures. Therefore the problem still stands and the only logical conclusion that I can conceive of is that such an agent does not exist.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 02:12 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;125155 wrote:
Whether or not suffering is necessary in our world has no bearing on whether or not the question still stands. The reason for the sensation of pain can be explained by biological science and natural disasters can be explained by physical science, but that's not the point. If I understand the OP correctly, and I believe I do, he is going on the premise that this universe and its physical "laws" were created by an all-knowing, all-powerful, beneficent supernatural agent that loves its creatures. Therefore the problem still stands and the only logical conclusion that I can conceive of is that such an agent does not exist.


Are you implying that Love does not comport any measure of pain and suffering to be valid ?

Epic Love in Poetry and Literature for instance tell us otherwise everyday...
Amperage
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 02:12 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;125155 wrote:
Whether or not suffering is necessary in our world has no bearing on whether or not the question still stands.
it's of utmost importance. If suffering is necessary then God would have no choice but to allow it. Since the only things unavoidable for God are those things which are logically necessary.

Pain and Suffering harbor just as much good if not more than they harbor evil. And they both work to strengthen our bodies, our character, and our souls. Even someone hellbent on doing something evil can't guarantee their result. Someone can try and cut someone down verbally and it will serve only to motivate the person even more. Someone can even try to physically hurt another and end up causing them pleasure and an adrenaline boost.
hue-man
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 02:16 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;125156 wrote:
Are you implying that Love does not comport any measure of pain and suffering to be valid ?

Epic Love in Poetry and Literature for instance tell us otherwise everyday...


This is not about epic love in poetry and literature. This is about why a supernatural agent that is all-knowing, all-powerful, beneficent and loves its creatures would allow or even cause pain and suffering. Once again the only logical conclusion that I can conceive of is that such an agent does not exist.
Amperage
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 02:17 pm
@Amperage,
The point is that pain and suffering exist. But how we perceive these sensations makes all the difference.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 02:18 pm
@hue-man,
hue-man;125158 wrote:
This is not about epic love in poetry and literature. This is about why a supernatural agent that is all-knowing, all-powerful, beneficent and loves its creatures would allow or even cause pain and suffering. Once again the only logical conclusion that I can conceive of is that such an agent does not exist.


The term "epic" was to emphasize the issue, you still have not answer my question...
0 Replies
 
 

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