Why does God permit evil????

@Alan McDougall,

Not not necessarily, I can't prove there is a God, I believe in experience. For all I know there is no God, I simply do not know. I do know that we make choices and depending on those choices will bring you closer to what ever lifes mystery created us. I don't know xris, I continue to make what I think is the right choices and it does bring me closer, I could say that there can't be a god or else I wouldn't have had such rotten parents, for example, (they could've been worse), (and they could've been better), but they made that choice, they were weak and gave into their weakness so I blame them not God, if there is a God that is. I just don't know.

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@jeeprs,

jeeprs;103961 wrote:

But I have asked this question about five times so far, and no-one has ventured an answer yet: how can you expect or demand a world with no suffering? The fact that rotten things happen and people are hurt, injured, fall sick - why does this mean that 'God is evil'? Tell me how you would make the world, if you were God, and how you would ensure that nobody ever sufffered or did wrong. Please explain that first.

In Voltaire's Candide it isn't exactly argued that an all-good, all-powerful God both could, and would, have created a world without suffering or pain, but it is certainly argued that such a God could, and would, have created a world that contained less suffering than does this actual world. Of course you last question is rhetorical. The answer is, "I have no idea. But then, I am not God". But how about Voltaire's question, "Couldn't God have created a world with (considerably) less suffering? Couldn't He have prevented even one child who has died miserably from having done so? That doesn't seem too tall an order.

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@Alan McDougall,

People don't die at the hand of God they die at the hands of others.

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@Caroline,

Caroline;104039 wrote:

People don't die at the hand of God they die at the hands of others.

Or hurricanes, or earthquakes, or disease, or accident, etc. etc...

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@Alan McDougall,

If your talking about natural disasters, I've already answered that in this thread a couple of pages back.
Thanks.

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Caroline;104039 wrote:

People don't die at the hand of God they die at the hands of others.

If you dont know Caroline why are you so certain? You cant have it both ways. You refuse to answer one question because you dont know if there is god and then make a statement that tells me you believe there is one. Lets be honest do you believe in god? Why are you so certain that humans kill other humans and its not god?

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@Caroline,

Caroline;104042 wrote:

If your talking about natural disasters, I've already answered that in this thread a couple of pages back.
Thanks.

I am, among other things. Would you give me the reference? I must have missed it.

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@Caroline,

Caroline;103995 wrote:

As far as natural disasters are concerned, they happen because are planet evolves. We wouldn't want to live near a volcano that is ready to errupt and we have equipment that predicts earthquakes. Once an earthquake happened on a remote island and nobody got hurt because they lived without western influence and there was no flying debris hitting anyone such as road signs or concrete because they lived in a natural state. Natural disasters such as earthquakes happen because of plates moving and in Japan they are now building high risers that will sway with the earthquake as opposed to collapsing so technology is helping us a great deal to avoid getting hurt when big natural movements occur.

There you go,
Thanks.

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Caroline;104052 wrote:

There you go,
Thanks.

Thank you. I don't really see how that answers the question about why an All powerful and all-loving God would not prevent the suffering that is the consequence of such disasters. Suppose a child dies painfully of throat cancer. How would you explain that?

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@Alan McDougall,

Depends how he got it, a lot of cancers are man made like dumping chemicals and the after effects of war, a lot of diseases are due to malnutrition, lack of sanitation, all man made. Medicine is always advancing and helping to cure or prolong life too.

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@Caroline,

Caroline;104054 wrote:

Depends how he got it, a lot of cancers are man made like dumping chemicals and the after effects of war, a lot of diseases are due to malnutrition, lack of sanitation, all man made. Medicine is always advancing and helping to cure or prolong life too.

For the sake of simplicity let's just consider cancers that are not the fault of man. Then what?

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@Alan McDougall,

Could you be more pacific as in what type of cancer?

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@Caroline,

Caroline;104065 wrote:

Could you be more pacific as in what type of cancer?

I mentioned throat cancer. But why do you ask? (You mean, I suppose, "specific"). What difference does the cause of the disease make? The question is why God does not prevent the suffering and pain caused by the disease (or by the earthquake, or by the typhoon, or by the flood).

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@Alan McDougall,

I've explained before about natural disaster, that the earth is geographically built to change, why it doesn't stay the same and never move I don't know. But technology is improving so we can predict these things before they happen thus preventing any loss off life. As for cancer, well if detected early on I'm presuming, (im not a doctor), that they can be treated.
Thanks.

1 Reply

@Caroline,

Caroline;104113 wrote:

I've explained before about natural disaster, that the earth is geographically built to change, why it doesn't stay the same and never move I don't know.

The earth was built? Who built it?

(More accurately, I think you might mean "geologically.")

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@Alan McDougall,

Maybe because of the forbidden fruit and adam and eve (no offense meant to anyone) because man was tempted, it's pandora's box all over and maybe because God wants us to realize the good because there can be no good without darkness, light does not exist without the darkness to let it shine through. It is through the plight of man that God's goodness shines through.

1 Reply

@Sapiens Fossor,

Sapiens Fossor;104175 wrote:

Maybe because of the forbidden fruit and adam and eve (no offense meant to anyone) because man was tempted, it's pandora's box all over and maybe because God wants us to realize the good because there can be no good without darkness, light does not exist without the darkness to let it shine through. It is through the plight of man that God's goodness shines through.

All "maybes". Any reason to think those maybes are true?

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@Didymos Thomas,

We pray in our closets but we pray for our needs, we pray for our sorrows, we pray for our joys, we pray to thank God he gave us the life He did. Worship is but a prayer of thanks to God in fellowship.

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@Alan McDougall,

To answer your question, Kennethamy, about why the world has to be quite as bad a place as it seems to be, I don't see how this could ever be addressed. Unless there were nothing evil anywhere in it, if the question was, why can a good God allow this to occur, this will remain while soever anything bad exists. I think the expectation that the world is not as we expect it to be, or could reasonably wish it to be, and that God is responsible for it, misconstrues the rationale behind the Judeo-Christian tradition. It is quite possibly a feature of the modern outlook on life. We are making great strides (or so we think) in ameliorating suffering and the viscisitudes of existence. Yet no matter what we do, terrible evils seem to remain. Who is responsible for this! I want to speak to the Manager!

I suggest reconsidering the Book of Job.

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@jeeprs,

[QUOTE=jeeprs;104215] To answer your question, Kennethamy, about why the world has to be quite as bad a place as it seems to be, I don't see how this could ever be addressed. [/QUOTE] I do not think there is an answer which is suitable for all conceptions. For some the evil and suffering in the world imply there is no god or that god is not all good and all loving. For others it is a mystery and the ways of god are beyond mans understanding. For still others it is the conception of god that is in error; god is not all powerful or all knowing and evil and suffering are inherent in any possible world.

[QUOTE=jeeprs;104215] Unless there was nothing evil anywhere in it, if the question was, why can a good God allow this to occur, this will remain while so ever anything bad exists,,,,and that God is responsible for it, misconstrues the rationale behind the Judeo-Christian tradition. [/QUOTE] Certainly the portrayal of god in biblical scripture is not omniscient or omnipotent. Things go wrong right from the second chapter of the first book. Covenants are made then broken; man is destroyed and new beginnings are made. Abraham bargains with god over the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah.
The medieval scholastic conception of god as omnipotent and omniscient comes from the fusion of Greek philosophy with scripture mostly through Augustine and then Aquinas. The Greek conception of perfection was timeless eternal changeless form. The Greeks thought the heavens contained perfect spheres orbiting in perfect circles, etc. This is much different than our modern view of nature and the heavens.
Religious conceptions change over time as do our conceptions of the workings of man and nature and their relationship. The medieval scholastic conception of the divine is not tenable in the modern worldview. Religion will change or die.

[QUOTE=jeeprs;104215] It is quite possibly a feature of the modern outlook on life. We are making great strides (or so we think) in ameliorating suffering and the vicissitudes of existence. Yet no matter what we do, terrible evils seem to remain. [/QUOTE] Evil and suffering is an inherent feature of the natural world. They are not necessarily part of gods plan or gods will. It seems rational to abandon or modify the conception of the divine which causes the seeming conflict.

[QUOTE=jeeprs;104215] Who is responsible for this! I want to speak to the Manager! [/QUOTE] For moral evil, man is responsible. For natural evil, no one is responsible; it is the res natura (the nature of things). Without the divine the universe would still be the formless void, without order, without creativity.

[QUOTE=jeeprs;104215] I suggest reconsidering the Book of Job. [/QUOTE]
There is no answer in the book of Job except that man with his puny intellect is in no position to question the wisdom of God. The nature of God and of divine action and purpose in the world disappear in the whirlwind of mysticism and transcendence. Not a topic for meaningful rational speculation.

Now I do not put forth my views as facts or objective truth. It is merely the conception of the divine and divine action that allows me to acknowledge the evil and suffering in the world without abandoning my hope (faith and trust) in transcendent value. If these views can help others cope with the evil and suffering in the world and still maintain faith in the divine, I think it is a good effort.

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Why does God permit evil????

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