Why does God permit evil????

@jeeprs,

jeeprs;103949 wrote:

so xris, you basic argument is that because anything bad can happen, God must be responsible, and there are bad things, God created them, therefore God is bad.

Is that it?

The notion of humans having free will and being able to choose their own destiny, is a really important aspect of the whole of Western religious doctrine. It speaks to the nature of freedom. If nobody had any choice but to 'do good', then goodness would have no meaning. In fact you could go further and say that the possibility of error, of evil, is an indispensible aspect of the whole picture. Unless the Good can be freely chosen, and chosen, not out of guilt or fear of the consequences, but because it is the very best thing that can be chosen, then what is it worth?

I still do not see how free will explains suffering and pain caused by natural disasters. And how free will mitigates the suffering of the little five year old girl found dead today in North Carolina who was sold into prostitution by her mother.

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@Alan McDougall,

But I have asked this question about five times so far, and no-one has ventured an answer yet: how can you expect or demand a world with no suffering? The fact that rotten things happen and people are hurt, injured, fall sick - why does this mean that 'God is evil'? Tell me how you would make the world, if you were God, and how you would ensure that nobody ever sufffered or did wrong. Please explain that first.

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@Alan McDougall,

You have to define God and what God really is, for me we do not know that answer. For some he is this devine being that is seperate from us, this gentle Grandfather figure but to me if your going to define God then he is in everything, in nature and all of us but noone knows what or who he really is, it's one of lifes great mysteries. But to come closer to God I believe doing evil is the opposite.

---------- Post added 11-17-2009 at 06:01 AM ----------

As far as natural disasters are concerned, they happen because are planet evolves. We wouldn't want to live near a volcano that is ready to errupt and we have equipment that predicts earthquakes. Once an earthquake happened on a remote island and nobody got hurt because they lived without western influence and there was no flying debris hitting anyone such as road signs or concrete because they lived in a natural state. Natural disasters such as earthquakes happen because of plates moving and in Japan they are now building high risers that will sway with the earthquake as opposed to collapsing so technology is helping us a great deal to avoid getting hurt when big natural movements occur.

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@Caroline,

You have to tell me if this god you imagine is a thoughtful god? did he create us with purpose and determination?

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@Alan McDougall,

I don't know xris, I just be all I can be.

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@Caroline,

Caroline;104005 wrote:

I don't know xris, I just be all I can be.

If you cant describe or know him you cant defend him. You cant just say he exists, thats blind faith. As an agnostic I don't think we can conceive of god but if you describe him I will question your description. You have tried defending his image so you must have created an image to defend.

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@Alan McDougall,

Im an agnostic too believe it or not, it's impossible to say whether God exists or not. I do believe there is beauty in nature and that somehow its all interlinked. Spiritually I do believe there is something but what I don't know. I do believe we have a choice to be good or evil and that is where the responsibilty lies.

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@Caroline,

Caroline;104008 wrote:

Im an agnostic too believe it or not, it's impossible to say whether God exists or not. I do believe there is beauty in nature and that somehow its all interlinked. Spiritually I do believe there is something but what I don't know. I do believe we have a choice to be good or evil and that is where the responsibilty lies.

So we have choice, does that conclude that God exists? You have defended a god, so how can you be agnostic if you have a description?

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@Alan McDougall,

I know it sounds kind of a contradiction, I just don't know what God is if there is one and I'm open to the possibilty that there is no God. I was answering the orignal question that if there is a God or creator, that we contribute to the evil things and because he created us does not relieve us of the choice or responisibilty fo doing evil.

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@Caroline,

Caroline;104012 wrote:

I know it sounds kind of a contradiction, I just don't know what God is if there is one and I'm open to the possibilty that there is no God. I was answering the orignal question that if there is a God or creator, that we contribute to the evil things and because he created us does not relieve us of the choice or responisibilty fo doing evil.

BUT you have to ask more questions than just that we have a choice. If there was a god you have to ask what god and demand a description. He could be a maniac, a pink unicorn, santa claus. For every god there is a description and its the description you question not the notion. This god did he intend to make us less than perfect?

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@Alan McDougall,

Less than perfect in what way? I think that it is what makes us human not to give into greed or to bully our neighbours when we are adults, isn't that what growing up is all about?

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@Caroline,

Caroline;104016 wrote:

Less than perfect in what way? I think that it is what makes us human not to give into greed or to bully our neighbours when we are adults, isn't that what growing up is all about?

Do you think humans are perfect? In anyway.Imperfection has to be acknowledged and if you consider god made us ,you have to ask the reason why?

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@Alan McDougall,

You mean why he gave us the choice to be good or evil? To learn I guess, you don't get nothing from being evil that's for sure. No I don't think humans are perfect, the nicest ones, (who commit no evil only good), are not perfect, it's what makes them human.

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@Caroline,

Caroline;104018 wrote:

You mean why he gave us the choice to be good or evil? To learn I guess, you don't get nothing from being evil that's for sure. No I don't think humans are perfect, the nicest ones, (who commit no evil only good), are not perfect, it's what makes them human.

So if he exists why did he make us imperfect?

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@Alan McDougall,

We are still wonderful beings although imperfect, we can create and be happy, having the choice is what makes us learn, if he created us to be perfect wouldn't that be boring in that how would we learn, what would we do?

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@Caroline,

Caroline;104023 wrote:

We are still wonderful beings although imperfect, we can create and be happy, having the choice is what makes us learn, if he created us to be perfect wouldn't that be boring in that how would we learn, what would we do?

Well for a start we would not see such people as Hitler and you could walk down the shops without worrying about a nasty ship who thinks his free will entitles him to mug you. I cant see anything wrong with perfection, its supposed to be our objective as far as i have been told.

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@Alan McDougall,

I mean imperfection in the sense that good people are imperfect, I didn't mean bad people like Hitler and muggers, these are people who have succumbed to greed, evil etc, and I believe that they made the choice not God, if God exists and he created us then he created the choice and the buck stops there, Hitler and the muggers are responsible for there own actions not God. I can see where your coming from, that God created us therefore he created evil people but we are conscious. Are you saying that people die at the hands of evil because God permits it and it has nothing to do with choices? That it bypasses the evil person because I believe that the responsibilty lies with the person, it is easy to harm people but harder to do good, which one do you choose? You cannot say you don't choose therefore you cannot shirk the responsibilty and blame it entirely on God. You do have the choice and to make a choice of evil because God permits it is not entirely accepting the responsibilty especially if you look at the reasons, take for example greed, people do all sorts to get their hands on money and power, others do not because they'd rather do good which shows we have a choice, why do we have that choice, can I say we just do or shall I say that to do good is a good reason to give life meaning? To do bad takes that meaning away and it's not life as we know it, (no good experiences only bad), we have the choice to give our life meaning, is this purpose, yes it is and only the uneducated take the bad path for surely there is nothing to be gained by being evil, Hitler ended up dead and hated, the muggers end up breaking the law and hopefully will meet their match and get a good kick in, sorry. Thems the breaks.
Cheers!

---------- Post added 11-17-2009 at 09:15 AM ----------

To be perfect in the sense I explained above, ie, good people can't people be perfect is to be not human, our imperfections, (in good people I mean), is what makes us human.

---------- Post added 11-17-2009 at 09:24 AM ----------

I guess we were given responsibilty aswell because where would be without it?

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@Caroline,

Caroline I know what makes us human, im not denying humanity or condemning it. Im questioning your logic on your concept of god. There are good and bad and thats a fact but you cant describe a god who invented this scenario and call him benevolent. For you to be so certain of the concept of god together with your attempts at explaining him, this is not questioning but acceptance.

Would you have any child raped and murdered for your existence, for you to have the ability to exert your free will? I would deny my existence if it saved one child from suffering this horror and for your god to be so immune to that child's suffering is beyond my comprehension.

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@Alan McDougall,

What I'm saying is because we are given free will does not give us the excuse to excert bad things on people, it's called responsibilty, in a perfect world no child would come to harm and I'd be the first in line to live in a world like that but that doesn't mean we cannot have a world like it, I have many theories on how to keep children and women safe. We are given responsibilty for a reason, we need it for various things such as bringing up children, taking care of animals and the vulnerable, the fact that some people shirk their responsibilties is what makes the world bad not God in any description. Because we have responsibilty is what gives us choice perharps and some are just weak don't you agree? Believe me xris I have several theories on how to protect the vulnerable and we should not be suffering in this world, there is no need. People are strong and learn to fight injustice and some are unfortunate and do not have anyone to protect them which in my eyes is where society fails, people fall through the net and we can plug these holes, that is responsibilty in my eyes.

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@Caroline,

Caroline;104034 wrote:

What I'm saying is because we are given free will does not give us the excuse to excert bad things on people, it's called responsibilty, in a perfect world no child would come to harm and I'd be the first in line to live in a world like that but that doesn't mean we cannot have a world like it, I have many theories on how to keep children and women safe. We are given responsibilty for a reason, we need it for various things such as bringing up children, taking care of animals and the vulnerable, the fact that some people shirk their responsibilties is what makes the world bad not God in any description. Because we have responsibilty is what gives us choice perharps and some are just weak don't you agree? Believe me xris I have several theories on how to protect the vulnerable and we should not be suffering in this world, there is no need. People are strong and learn to fight injustice and some are unfortunate and do not have anyone to protect them which in my eyes is where society fails, people fall through the net and we can plug these holes, that is responsibilty in my eyes.

So these views you have proves to you that there is a god?

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Why does God permit evil????

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