Why does God permit evil????

The classic problem of evil is ancient :Epicurus. That there is a logical contradiction between divine omnipotence, divine goodness and the existence of evil is accepted. Many solutions have been proposed free will, fallen world, greater good, final justice, evil as the absence of good, etc. None have been accepted. The reality of evil is a major cause of disbelief, doubt and atheism. When confronted with a logical contradiction one should reexamine the postulates that created it. Evil, divine power and divine goodness. Of the three the only one which can be relinquished and still retain a meaningful conception of the divine is divine power. To deny the reality of evil and to deny the divine goodness is catastrophic for religion but to deny divine omnipotence or to deny divine omniscience is not.

That is what James and others mean when they say God needs our help. God is not all powerful. God is persuasive not coercive. "god has no hands but your hands" help out.
It is also what Jesus means "The kingdom of God dwells within you" and
the Easterners say the atman "The divine that dwells within". God is not some divine all powerful tyrant but the spirit that dwells within nature and brings value into creation.

As I wrote in an earlier post, the issue of omnipotence is a separate issue. It is not a solution to the classic problem of evil. That problem is the problem of reconciliation of evil with omnipotence and goodness.

Earthquakes are not, of course, intrinsically evil. But, they are extrinsically evil because they have evil effects. They cause suffering and pain. I am not blaming the car, but it is, nevertheless, true that cars kill and maim people.

All Evil is created by Man. Source Energy (GOD) Is Only Good Positive Energy or We humans call it ""LOVE""

---------- Post added 11-08-2009 at 09:18 PM ----------

Evil happens because We manifest them into our Experiences, Or others We share the same time,space reality with do also.

The reality of evil is a major cause of disbelief, doubt and atheism. When confronted with a logical contradiction one should reexamine the postulates that created it. Evil, divine power and divine goodness. Of the three the only one which can be relinquished and still retain a meaningful conception of the divine is divine power. To deny the reality of evil and to deny the divine goodness is catastrophic for religion but to deny divine omnipotence or to deny divine omniscience is not.

Is this intended to make sense or is it just a sermon? Take away the human from the equation and evil would not exist is that your theory? but we are supposed to be gods invention, so does he invent evil?

Well after 2000 years of trying I do not think you are going to get a solution here except by questioning one or more of the assumptions that created the problem to start with. It is pretty clear that the problem in its original form is a logical contradiction. Without changing the common sense notion of evil, of goodness or of power there is no solution: thats why it is the ancient and unsolvable "problem of evil".

Evil can only be done by an intelligent sentient entity, tectonic plates snapping and releasing energy just happen and are not evil.

As I have pointed out (twice) earthquakes are not intentionally evil, but their consequences are evil. The cause suffering and pain to sentient creature. So earthquakes are extrinsically evil. They are evil by their evil effects. They are, as it is said, not evil, but they are an evil.

21 pages later we're still arguing about this?

Guys, we're just using different notions of "evil" here. We've clarified this multiple times throughout the thread. I don't understand what people are hung up about.

Yes, but for some "evil" can be only intentional. I am not sure why, but there it is.

You should know why. Because you know the notion of "evil" you and I discussed earlier, and the notion of "evil" and you are still discussing with people like Alan here.

There's two different notions of "evil" being spoken of here:

1.) Ethical "evil" - the evil done by a conscious human with intention.
2.) Broader usage of "evil" - all things perceived bad, regardless if any conscious entity was a part.

Alan is using (1), you're still using (2). And there's nothing wrong with that, but there's also no point debating a point that doesn't exist. You should both realize that you're using distinct definitions of "evil".

Be done with it, right?

Well, not quite. This thread began with the argument that all evils are the fault of Man and Man's free will. One important counterargument is that there are many natural evils not caused by Man at all. Like Earthquakes. Depending on whether we cound natural evils as evils or not, the "free will argument" to solve the problem of evil either goes through or not. Of course, if natual evils are not evils, then what are they, and if they are not 'acts of God" then how are they caused?

You're going in circles. We've addressed this. Do you not remember? It had to be a good 10 pages ago. I told you explicitly how one could perceive natural disasters without interpreting them as "acts of God" or "evil".

Are you really asking how natural disasters are caused? You want a scientific explanation? Ok. Name a specific natural disaster, and I'll look up the cause...

But what about the argument that all evil is the fault of Man and Man's free will? If not, then the problem of evil is why it is that God does not prevent natural disasters if He is all-powerful? Natural disasters have natural causes. But the problem of evil poses the question of why God does not intervene to prevent natural disasters from happening. Of course we can "perceive" natural disasters. But what has that to do with it? They are evil. That is to say, they cause suffering and pain. If God is all-good then He should want to prevent them; and if God is all-powerful, He should be able to prevent them. So, how come they occur anyway? You must be missing something. But I don't know what it is.

If God is "all-good", which, I guess, would mean that everything he does is good, and assuming he's omnipotent, why do you think natural disasters are evil? It seems to me that natural disasters would also be good, as God would be the cause, and everything is caused by God, and everything that God causes is good.

So, you must be wrong about your understanding of evil. In fact, if God is all-good, are we sure evil even exists? Aren't we, and everything God has created, a reflection of God, and thus good?

So, if God is all-good, and all-powerful, then why doesn't He prevent the suffering and pain that result from natural disasters, or prevent the natural disasters?

Clearly, if everything is caused by God, and suffering and pain are not good, and God is all-good, then there seems to be a contradiction.