Moslem Invasion of Europe.

I think that perhaps the reason this has reached the fever pitch in France, instead of Germany or theUK, is that France has traditionally been the haven for dissenters from abroad, and Paris in particular has acheived the reputation of a bastion for free thought. All Things Considered just ran an interview with a member of the French government who is working on the issue. He pointed out that France has the largest number of non-Christians in all of Europe. Vive la France! Very Happy

On the down side, Chretien, the French Fascist leader, prefers the continuation of religious symbols, as a way to conveniently "label" his enemies. Not surprisingly, he considers himself Christian. Rolling Eyes

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This goes to the heart of the question. What will happen when the Moslems in numbers are strong enough to retaliate in kind?

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901031208-552065,00.html?cnn=yes Europe

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You really must like that article, au, because you post it frequently!

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Walter
Just the second time. I thought it was quite appropriate to the discussion on hand.

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au1929 wrote:

Walter
Just the second time.

:wink:

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So, instead of commies under the bed, people can now fear Muslims in the pantry? Rolling Eyes

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Hobbit
That fear may not be as unfounded as you make it out to be. If the European commissions report is to be believed. They have brought their hatreds and prejudices with them. And what is worrisome is the refusal or inability to integrate into European society. If and until they do the potential for conflict is very real. You can take the immigrant out of the old country. But can you take the old country out of the immigrant? That is the question.

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au1929 wrote:

Hobbit
That fear may not be as unfounded as you make it out to be.

Doubtful.

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If the European commissions report is to be believed. They have brought their hatreds and prejudices with them.

As compared to teh hatreds and prejudices against them that folks like you demonstrate? Rolling Eyes

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And what is worrisome is the refusal or inability to integrate into European society.

Why should they? Societies change over time. I would venture that not only is "European Society" as a singular entity nonexistent, but that European social norms are vastly different from what they were twenty years ago, and will be just as different twenty years from now.

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If and until they do the potential for conflict is very real.

Mainly due to bigotry and predjudice from those who think like LePen and you!

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You can take the immigrant out of the old country. But can you take the old country out of the immigrant? That is the question.

Why should one do so?

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Hobitbob
To you I say when in Rome------!

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AU
You can take the immigrant out of the old country. But can you take the old country out of the immigrant? That is the question.
hobbit
Why should one do so?

Because when you immigrate and become a citizen of another nation you should become a citizen of that nation.

That is why the US prospered most of the immigrants that came here, came here to become American citizens in every sense of the word.

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au

Since you are primarily referring to France:

The French National Institute for Statistics and Economic Studies released figures in March 1997 that showed that legal immigrants make up 7.4 percent of France's population, the same proportion as in 1975. The number of foreigners legally migrating to France had declined by 40 percent between 1992 and 1995. About 68,000 foreigners migrated to France in 1995 compared with more than 110,600 in 1992. About 100,000 foreigners acquire French nationality each year.

However, in that year (1997), Jean Marie Le Pen asserted in a his book "Roman d'un President" (A President's Story) that President Chirac was under the influence of Jewish organizations when he "agreed to lose the presidential election in 1988 rather than make an agreement with me." The book, published in March 1997, repeats the National Front's plan to give preferences to "real" French citizens - those that have a parent who is French.

Le Pen is especially aiming at the Jewish community from North Africa, Arabs, who aren't wellcome in Israel in either.

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That is why the US prospered most of the immigrants that came here, came here to become American citizens in every sense of the word.

Again, I disagree. Taking as an example Baltimore in the 19th and early 20th centuries, there was little "assimilation." Each wave of immigrants maintained their respective cultures with little modification. Irish, Italian, German (Protestant, Catholic and Jewish) and Eastern European imigrants tended to remain intheir respective enclaves and not mix until well into the depression era. If you read Burrows, et. al.,you will see that the situation in New York was similar. the "Melting Pot," though lyrical, has little basis in reality.

The "great equalizer" in American culture may have been the shared desperation of the Depression era.

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The book, published in March 1997, repeats the National Front's plan to give preferences to "real" French citizens - those that have a parent who is French.

The unworkablitiy of LePen's lunacy is evident when one takes into consideration the number of Frenchmen (i.e. citizens) of North African origin. LePen's arguements are couched in terms of race, rather than of nationality. The aspects of N. African culture that have become by default French also serve to counter his arguements.

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Walter
France seems to have become the focal point however, I should remind you that the original question was related to Europe in general and not France in particular.

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I should remind you that the original question was related to Europe in general and not France in particular.

Which was the original example of fallacious reasoning.

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Hobbit
Although there were and to some extent still are ethnic neighborhoods. These people were all striving to be Americans and fit in. There loyalties were to the US not the land of their birth. A land that they had in most instances fled from. Having grown up in one such neighborhood as did most of my friends be they Irish or Italian or Jewish I have seen it first hand.

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au1929 wrote:

Hobbit
Although there were and to some extent still are ethnic neighborhoods. These people were all striving to be Americans and fit in.

Not entirely true. If you read contemporary diaries, many had strong ambitions to return "home."

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There loyalties were to the US not the land of their birth. A land that they had in most instances fled from.

Again, the research doesn't support your opinions.

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Having grown up in one such neighborhood as did most of my friends be they Irish or Italian or Jewish I have seen it first hand.

Which generation were these (i.e. first gen, second gen, or later? Usually the first generation born in the new country strives to assimilate, the second and third strive to hold on to cultural anachronisms, and the fifth and later generations are most successful at combining antecedent and current cultures.), and was it before, during, or after the depression? Jusding form your age, it was likely to have been mid-depression. Circumstances had changed by then. Oftentimes, when dealing wiht matters socialogical, anecdotal evidence is of questionable value.

In addition, if you are discussing the situation in Central Europe, I should emphasize that there has never been the emphasis on cultural assimilation that exists in the US.

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Hobbit
The neighborhoods of which I speak were both peopled by foreign born and first generation Americans. Both my parents were foreign born my mother came here as a teenager and my father in his early 20's. They both blessed this land as did all those I knew. No one was ever looking to return to the oppression of the "old" country.

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As I mentioned, things changed in the para-depression era. You would be well advised to do some reading on this before you continue with your sweeping generalizations.

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Goodnight Gracie!

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Hobbitt
Before I sign off my parents arrived as did those people I knew long before the depression era. My mother arrived about 1905 and father before WW!. In fact he was in the American Army during that war and his brother in the navy.

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Moslem Invasion of Europe.

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