Alien life? -- your take on the subject

Oh, and BGW, of course tin foil hats are not cheap--you've no idea of the amount of engineering which goes into developing an essential protective device such as that . . .

There was never a belief in anything fantastic on my behalf. You're the one fabulating your way through this.

Quasi certainty comes with the Disclosure Project. It presents many witnesses, career officers who have less to gain than to loose, who come out with an unambiguous voice on the subject of the UFO cover up. If you don't lend credibility to such a large group of direct witnesses, no standard for common sense can remain.

And then there are pictures that have been proven to show a disc shaped UFO. There are books by former DOD colonels, CIA contracters, NASA scientists.

There is simply too much discernible smoke to deal with fantasy. There is a UFO phenomenon and it is covered up with huge efforts. It's not working anymore; the 'tin foil hat' argument becomes a total cliché.

Unidentified flying objects remain as such until they are identified as a frisbie or lamp shade or spurious blob of emulsion. People WANT to believe, it solves all the hard questions for them. It doesn't mean intelligent life forms from other planets are actually whizzing about the sky. Just the same as visions of Virgin Mary appearing to little grirls and otherwise respected figures such as Conan Doyle who were taken in by "photographs" of fairies. Its a product of an over active imagination and too much time to idle away.

I've no doubt at all that the US military takes UFO's seriously. Its their job isn't it to protect American airspace? Interceptor fighters have standing orders to investigate any untoward arial phenomenum, and regularly do so, except of course if its a hijacked passenger aircraft heading straight for the Pentagon.

Or as extraterrestrial mechanical devices.

WHAT IF

Mars decided to attack us, with starships disguised as hubcaps or frisbees or lampshades? Nobody would believe it until too late.

I'm willing to take the chance

Ray Bradbury is alive and well..........

While I may believe in the possibilty of alien life, I'm also keenly aware that the whole subject of UFOs has been a running joke for those who have not actually encountered strange disks appearing in the sky, hovering above and making angled turns and finally disappearing, seemingly into mid-air.

Logic tells me that even if 99% of sightings can be attributed to swamp gas or optical illusions and the like, the fact is that there is still that 1% of unexplained phenomena that do not fit the criteria of say, mass hysteria.

So, are we to conclude that everyone who has ever spotted a flying object in the sky at midday, are hallucinating, and therefore lying to gain fame or fortune, or attention? To me, that doesn't seem to be the case. If it were so, it'd be a whole lot easier to go on a reality show, or a talk show, or streak through your neighborhood.

The reason I'm skeptical of skeptics is that everything is explained away far too readily, almost as if those skeptics feel that once something is ridiculed, no one will take whatever makes them uncomfortable seriously, and they can claim they were right all along.

It's just so much more sophisticated to be cynical. :wink:

Have you ever canvassed the possibility that people who are sceptical of many things, are not of most others? Have you given consideration to the extent to which venal and sly individuals in their thousands make a good living form the credulity of those eager to believe ________________ . (You may fill the blank with any number of passionate beliefs: god, ufos, political certitude, esp . . .

Given that there is so much with which one has to deal, the reality of which is all too evident, i think that those who are unwilling to burden their thoughts with unwarranted and unproven speculations passed off as gospel truth might be forgiven their evil cynicism. They might well not be attempting to aspire to sophistication.

Setanta, I concede to your point that not everyone is aiming for sophistication.

Perhaps it was the wrong choice of words. On the subject of the possibility of extraterrestrial life, maybe it's simply considered more popular to take the stance of scoffing than it is to go out on a limb, and risk falling flat on one's face.

truth
Setanta, I concede your point ENTHUSIASTICALLY. I feel strongly that the underlying motive for UFO believers is that they get a kick out of whole mythology. I wish them well in their enjoyment.

I'm not ridiculing anyone's sincere belief. But that doesn't mean anyone is right. (I do ridicule the fraudsters - in fact ridicule is too good for them).

I just want one piece of evidence - not hearsay or some grainy picture. One article in a peer reviewed journal such as Scientific American or Nature.

Deni Zen, you say "The reason I'm skeptical of skeptics is that everything is explained away far too readily, almost as if those skeptics feel that once something is ridiculed, no one will take whatever makes them uncomfortable seriously, and they can claim they were right all along".

There are all sorts of factors leading to the UFO phenomenum. Secret tests by the US military/atmospheric conditions/pranksters the list goes on. I keep an open mind , but not so open that my brains fall out.

I'm willing to be convinced - really I am - but extraordinary claims must be backed with extraordinary evidence and the UFOists don't have any.

It's up to us. By certain standards, there is no proof for anything. You can 'sophisticate' someone to death, and you can do it with any topic. At the end all that remains is a dried up skeleton.

It's all ready made up in your minds: extraterrestrial travel can not happen. It's not even possible. They're out there, but they will never reach us. Therefore, even if there is clear evidence and testimony that thousands of flying, rather hovering objects in our atmosphere during our history have not fitted any known description, you remain numbed and cynical. "Yeah, yeah, they're making a profit of our credulity. I got them all figured out."

There is no blind belief in this matter. It's all a question of common sense. But our history has shown that common sense was always enslaved by reactionary views. I loathe that. Like frightened children, you wait for the mainstream press to acknowledge something, as if the mainstream press were a holy cow of truth.

When pilots all over the planet say they have seen hovering mechanical objects that do not fit any known or even experimental paradigm, you come up with a reason to burn them on a stake. I choose to investigate what they might have seen. And the extraterrestrial explanation is still number one. Because it's the most reasonable explanation in this kind of universe.

I've got no opinion on UFO's. But I believe that the assertion that we are the only intelligent life, in the vastness of this universe, is arrogant in the extreme.

Ok. Finally a reasonable starting point in this irritating duel.

And it all departs from that point, really. It's just as arrogant to claim that tiny us would be the only ones with the ambition to discover other living planets. And it's outirght stupid to say that interstellar space travel is impossible, no matter how technologically evolved you get.

Mind you, this was not sufficient to convince me that UFOs had to be extraterrestrial. But at a certain point your defensive layer drops when you start to realise that some observed craft apparently are the most probable next step in the logic that we are not alone.

Wolf

I don't know if you read what I said before your last post but what I said was

" I keep an open mind , but not so open that my brains fall out.

I'm willing to be convinced - really I am - but extraordinary claims must be backed with extraordinary evidence and the UFOists don't have any."

and what you wrote was

"It's all ready made up in your minds: extraterrestrial travel can not happen. It's not even possible. They're out there, but they will never reach us. "

please don't put words in my mouth...of course extraterrestrial travel is possible, we've been to the moon and back. But I'm not going to accept that an unexplained arial phenomenum must be a space ship from another star system just because someone wants it to be so. If all other rational explanations fail, it remains what it was, an unidentified flying object, and not automatically a star fleet command ship from the planet zog.

Earth is the only planet with life on it -1 vote. What's the betting that's a churchie?

I woke up this mornin with this light in my eye
Then realized it was still dark outside
It was coming down from the sky
And don't know who or why

Must be those strangers who come every night
whose saucer shaped light, Put people up tight
They leave little footprints that glow in the dark
I hope they get home alright

Hey Mr. Spaceman
Please take me along, I won't do anything wrong
Hey Mr.Spaceman
Won't you please take me along for a ride

Woke up this mornin and was feelin quite weird
With flys in my ear and toothpaste was smirred
Looked under my window and ________
So long we'll see you again

Hey Mr. Spaceman
Please take me along, I won't do anything wrong
Hey Mr.spaceman
won't please take me along for a ride

Hey Mr. spaceman
Please take me along. I won't do any thing wrong
Hey, Mr. spaceman
won't you please take me along for a ride
won't you please take me along for a ride.

"Earth is the only planet with life on it -1 vote. What's the betting that's a churchie?"

Je n'comprends pas mon ami

Que-est que c'est vous fume?

Space baccy?

And I said, Wolf, that that's one reason I carry in my pocket a collapsible portable bucket ( pail to Brits ) in that eventuality, so I can stuff my brains back in.

:wink: