Got any science, or just polemics?
If you are going to start a debate on one of the most vexed and vexing issues in current world events, do you have any facts, or just tabloid sentiment?
---------- Post added 12-02-2009 at 08:25 PM ----------
furthermore nobody was being stampeded here. It was until this week a bi-partisan policy that substantially resembled the policy that the Conservatives took to the last election. It has been under development for 10 years, has been subject to a number of enquiries, and an exhaustive research and consultation process.
What has actually happened is that the right wing of the party fomented a scare campaign based on the idea that climate change is a left-wing conspiracy to undermine capitalism (they said this on television) and then rolled the moderates who had already negotiated an extremely modest climate change amelioration bill with the Labour government.
So the Liberals have, as some commentators said, 'taken a step backward and to the right'. My prediction is that there will be electoral backlash. But most of all I am very saddened that a broad consensus on combating a real threat has been shattered by the right wing, the chance may not come again for some time.
So much for opinion. Henceforth everything I contribute to this thread will be referenced.
I suppose that what you mean by "broad consensus" is a "broad consensus" that climate change is an indisputable truth, and the world has to go back at least 100 years. The latest events from East Anglia remind me of two tales: The Boy who Cried "Wolf", and The Emperor's Clothes. Like many others of your view, you sound as if someone has challenged, and insulted, your religion.
I think you should be wary of challenging the consensus of opinion on one rogue report.Energy and Global Warming News for October 26: Markey expands "clean coal" forged letter investigation Climate Progress
There was no "rogue report". These were purloined e-mails which showed how the data were being cooked, and how contrary data were being suppressed.
So whats your point? one rogue research, does that make the argument invalid. I see you dont mention my link.
Just a hunch-
No other species seems to make this error of perspective the way our species has.
Just a hunch-
With our recent success of material control and power, we seem to have lost our sense of danger. No other species seems to make this error of perspective the way our species has. I would call it titanic arrogance.
But what has that to do with the manipulation of data?
Its got nothing to do with it Ken but your attitude has. You select one deviant and you ignore the overwhelming evidence. You ignore my link as if it does not exist. Its called selective reasoning.
I select what is relevant. What makes you think that East Anglia is deviant? I mentioned the the University of Pa. East Anglia has been caught. But that does not make it deviant. In any case, the e-mails went all around the globe.
Ken why dont you comment on my link? The only objectors are those with vested interests. King coal aint going to every lie down and the might oil barons have muddied the water for years. All the opposition and the intrigue against the scientific evidence is manipulated by these self interested giants. You pounce on this one silly incidence as if it secures your point of view conclusively, it's ridiculous.
I don't think that you are suggesting that we are biologically determined to follow the way of the rabbit's are you?
Because I simply don't see what it has to do with the issue.
If you will read my statement carefully you will see that I am not saying that other species do not engage in overpopulation or depleting the resources. I am saying that our species has raised it to a compulsion with dire consequences like no other species
If you are drawing attention to over population as a more primary reason for the problems we are having globally, I would certainly agree, and global warming is one of them.
I don't think that you are suggesting that we are biologically determined to follow the way of the rabbit's are you? We can change and try to altar the mindless course we seem to be on. That is basically all I am suggesting. Rabbits do not have a choice I think we do.
"But what has that to do with the manipulation of the data?"
I would be grateful if you would post a link or two to this gross problem of "manipulation of data."
Well try this. But it is all over the internet, and in the newspapers, and television. Just put in "Climate change e-mails" into a search engine.
CBC News - World - Hackers skewed climate-change emails: scientists