18
   

Tea Party Favorites in U.S. Senate Races

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 10:26 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

It's easy in American politics to stake out positions to the far right and the far left. The difficulty is then attracting moderate voters to those positions.

Republicans already have the far-right votes. And they will never attract the far-left votes. They need to attract the slight-left voters, and Democrats need to attract the slight-right voters.


This comment implies that it is "difficult" to stake out a moderate position. Not so at all, it is far more easy to simply say the far right and the far left are too far out that it is to articulate a position of thoughtful (albeit in the case of the Left, idiotic) principle.

The true moderate opinion is that there is something right and wrong in each side of the spectrum's arguments. It suggest that we can always find a midpoint through compromise, which means that no issue is of fundamental importance and all can be considered good to haggle.

Yes, it is difficult for the opposite ends of the spectrum to attract those, by their very nature, most comfortable sitting on the fence., but what you will find in November is that far more people astride that fence are leaning right than left, and that's all conservatives need.

morell
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 10:45 pm
@wandeljw,
It would appear that the abysmal performance of President Obama, joined to the horrendous unemployment statistics, prefigured by the massive losses in real estate values, has led many to reject a large number of incumbents. Rand Paul, according to all polls, is a shoo-in for the Senate seat in Kentucky. Angle is doing quite well. According to consensus polling, she leads Reid by eleven percent. It is interesting that Reid's son, who is running for governor, is also far behind his opponent. Indeed, Angle received a large number of votes from the most populous section of Nevada. It is expected that the Democratic Party will pour in Millions to save Harry Reid butan eleven point lead, even in June, is difficult to overcome.

If the candidates throughout the country are scrutinized, most of them on the Republican side are not bonafide Tea Party Candidates but are really what one might call regular Republicans.

The November Election will result in a Congress that is gridlocked. Many Americans think this is the best result. The President could not get much of his agenda passed when his party controlled the Senate and House. After the election, left wing proposals which do not contain strong bi-partisan support are doomed.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 06:29 am
@morell,
Interesting analysis, morell. Welcome to A2K!
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 07:15 am
morell wrote:


The November Election will result in a Congress that is gridlocked. Many Americans think this is the best result. The President could not get much of his agenda passed when his party controlled the Senate and House. After the election, left wing proposals which do not contain strong bi-partisan support are doomed.


That will stop Obama's mindless spending spree and maybe then congress will work on reducing the national debt.

National Debt Now Tops American Fears
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jun, 2010 07:50 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
This comment implies that it is "difficult" to stake out a moderate position.

That's because it is difficult to stake out a moderate position. To claim it as your own, so that no one else can use it.

It's not difficult to have a moderate position. The difficulty is in making it definitively yours. If both politicians hold moderate positions, then the only thing that separates them is their party label.
morell
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 12:23 am
@H2O MAN,
Some have predicted that our total debt(not yearly deficit) will be equal to 90% of our total yearly GDP in four or five years. Just the debt service on that debt will cause massive inflation and will cripple our economy. That's what happens when a "community organizer" who never met a payroll is put in charge.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  0  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 08:44 am
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 04:53 pm
@DrewDad,
It's hard to imagine a position that cannot be claimed by anyone else being considered moderate.

I think I get what you are trying to say, that politicians find it difficult to stake their elections on moderate positions because they need to play to their base, but that isn't the case. You won't see much moderation in a primary contest, but you will in general elections.

In any case, I assure you that what you consider to be a "moderate" position is thought to be left leaning by quite a few people, because you believe "moderate" and "reasonable" are synonymous, and you also believe Liberal thought to be reasonable.

One only needs to spend time on A2K to know that you are no moderate. This is fine of course, unless you want to imbue the term with unquestionable value, and then lay claim to it.

morell
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 05:10 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O man- How do you feel about 130 TRILLION DOLLARS? That is equal to 130 thousand Billion or 130 MILLION MILLION. That is the load that our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will take on largely because of the spend and spend and spend and tax and tax and tax left wing Democrats under the leadership of Barack Hussein Obama, who, of course, never met a payroll.

This huge number refers to all Federal, State and Local debt.

We have to put a stop to this madness. Even the French ( that Socialistic Nation) are beginning to talk about revising the retirement age which is now at sixty. Since people are living to eighty and ninety regularly, how can the rest of the workers fund their pensions? It is not possible so Sarkozy is leaning in the direction of cutting benefits.

That is one of the best reasons I have ever heard of for repealing and revising Obamacare!
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 09:06 am
Quote:
'The Accidental Politician'
(Robert Costa, National Review Online, June 14, 2010)

Sharron Angle, the GOP nominee for U.S. Senate in Nevada, visited National Review’s offices in New York this afternoon. A former home-school advocate who calls herself an “accidental politician,” Angle says she’s running because it’s her “patriotic duty.” Here are some excerpts from the interview:

— Why she’s running: “I was the first one to enter the race against Harry Reid,” she says. “We needed someone in direct contrast to Harry Reid.… I knew that in order to bring out that independent voter, you had to have the contrast. You had to say we’re not the same as the Democrats, that we really have a true contrast, that we’re someone different. That’s why I jumped in the race.… It’s just been a phenomenon.”

— On her primary win: “It became focused with the Tea Party Express endorsement,” she says. “The first endorsement that we got that was of great consequence was from Gun Owners of America. We knew that was of great consequence because it reached across party lines in Nevada. We’re pretty much a 90 percent Second Amendment state. We knew that we were now reaching into constituencies with independent voters as well as Democrat voters. Then this tea-party movement, that was moving across party lines. Then we got Phyllis Schlafly, and she was moving across party lines for us. Same thing with Mark Levin, the talk-show host. When those four really solidified, now we had conservatives from every passionate voter base.… That’s when we thought this thing was really doable.… I give God a lot of credit. Most everything has a providential side in American history.”

— On accusations about her sympathy to Scientology’s prison policy: “First, the disclaimer. I’m not a Scientologist,” she says. But she says the attacks bring up a bigger point. “What we’re seeing here is a very slippery slope. Whenever religion becomes the focal point — we saw this during John F. Kennedy’s race and also, to some degree, in Mitt Romney’s race — whenever this becomes the focus, we Americans should be very, very concerned. We have a First Amendment that guarantees us all the right to worship as we please. We as Americans should, even if we don’t agree, should defend their right to have that right. It shouldn’t come into play in any political arena.”

— On Social Security: “We have seen Harry Reid raid Social Security,” she says. “They’ve been using this Social Security lockbox as a slush fund for years and years, for every program and every entitlement and every big-government idea. Instead of making our senior citizens feel secure in Social Security — they’ve paid into it in good faith, we have a contract, they should be able to collect — they have a big IOU. I’d like to save Social Security, allowing that lockbox to be filled up and the key clicked.” She calls Reid’s attack ad “nonsense.” Beyond the lockbox, Angle is open to the idea of personal accounts: “Social Security and Medicare should be personalized in a way so that it cannot be raided any longer.… I’m not sure exactly how that looks, but I’m not opposed to personal accounts. I’m not opposed to free-market solutions to those kinds of things. I think Paul Ryan has some proposals on the table that I think have some merit. I don’t pretend to have all of the fine-tuning of the solution; I just know that the solution can’t be an open bank account for the government to keep using.”

— On abolishing the Department of Education: “I was an educator,” she says. “I did public [school teaching], I’ve done private, home school, tutoring for juvenile justice. I’ve taught adults at community college. So I have a broad base. I also sat on a school board and served for four terms on the education committee in my state, so when I speak, I feel that I have a broad background to speak from. The Department of Education is a policy machine in Washington that sends down one-size-fits-all that fits no one, like No Child Left Behind, and generally it’s unfunded mandates to the states. Education is always best when you get all of the stakeholders involved and working toward that same commitment. That happens best at the local level. Education that happens the closest to the classroom, with the children, with the teacher — that’s where you’re going to get the best education, right there. Anything bureaucratically, administratively, these layers and layers, it just diminishes the involvement of the stakeholder in the first place. They feel like their voice is not being heard because there is too much of a loud clamor from the top.…We need to begin the cuts at the departments and agencies that are the least essential for the federal government to be involved in. I don’t think that the Department of Education is one of those essential involvements of the federal government. I think it could be done very well at the state level.… Even at the state level, I would encourage them to do it closer to the local level, if possible.”

— On Harry Reid: Reid, she says is “ruthless.” He can be “very difficult.… Harry Reid is the master of the carrot and the stick. We’ve known that for a long time in Nevada. I think the nation got a real good taste of that during Obamacare when he began to do what he does best, which is ‘let’s make a deal.’ I put nothing past him.… [He is] part and parcel of the corruption pervasive in the Washington, D.C., machinery…we’ve just had our fill.”

— On the GOP: “I like Senator Tom Coburn and the way that he votes. I also like Senator Jim DeMint. Both are stellar, stellar senators. When I ran for Congress, I had the great pleasure of meeting Congressman Mike Pence. I certainly admire him. I also admire Congresswoman Michele Bachmann and her voting record.” Does she want Washington’s help? “Of course,” she says. “That’s why I’m back here [in New York and in Washington on Tuesday]. I wasn’t here just to talk to the National Review [she laughs]. I have a meeting this evening with big donors here in New York.… Tomorrow, we go to Washington, D.C., to meet with Senator Cornyn, Senator DeMint, all of the senatorial committee. We’re meeting with the NRSC, the RNC, all of that…officialdom. We’re meeting with everyone. We know that everybody has been kind of divided over what’s happened in the past year, but it’s time to unite and it’s time to go forward and it’s time to gain some ground that we haven’t had for almost 20 years. That’s the ground the makes us the shining city on the hill. We need to be back there.”

— On that supposed website shutdown: “I think you’ve misunderstood,” she says. “What we did immediately after our win was we put up a splash page that said ‘send money.’ At the bottom, you could have seen a button that said ‘issues’ and one that said ‘biography.’ So I was really still there, all my issues were there, I was still there, but it wasn’t the main focus. The main focus was ‘send money.’ That’s the page that we’ve been running.… This idea that I’ve been running from the press? I have been doing between five and seven interviews every day since I won. So that’s pure nonsense. It’s difficult to sort through all of the requests.… I’ve been going to, what I feel, is the donor base. You have Mark Levin, and Lars Larson, and even Rush Limbaugh’s show came out and said ‘send money to this woman.’ The traffic got so great that we could not receive all of it.… We know this is a national campaign.”
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 09:25 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
I think I get what you are trying to say, that politicians find it difficult to stake their elections on moderate positions because they need to play to their base,

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
but that isn't the case. You won't see much moderation in a primary contest, but you will in general elections.

That is what I'm saying. But the Tea Party faction doesn't have a visible correlate on the left.

A Democrat doesn't have to be crazy liberal to win the primary, right now.

These days, a Republican does have to be crazy conservative to win the nomination, which doesn't leave much opportunity to dash back to the center after he or she wins the primary.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
In any case, I assure you that what you consider to be a "moderate" position is thought to be left leaning by quite a few people, because you believe "moderate" and "reasonable" are synonymous, and you also believe Liberal thought to be reasonable.

And what you consider to be "moderate" is thought to be right-leaning by quite a few people.

However, I'm not really that much of a "Liberal." That's just the label you reflexively paste on anyone who disagrees with you.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
One only needs to spend time on A2K to know that you are no moderate. This is fine of course, unless you want to imbue the term with unquestionable value, and then lay claim to it.

You're the party-line hack, here, Finn.
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 09:29 am
I wonder whatever happened to the Coffee Party.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 11:36 am
@DrewDad,
I've never claimed to be a moderate, and while it would be wrong to claim that members of the Tea Party movement are moderates it is, at least, equally wrong to claim they are crazy conservatives.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 12:23 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I've never claimed to be a moderate, and while it would be wrong to claim that members of the Tea Party movement are moderates it is, at least, equally wrong to claim they are crazy conservatives.

Why is it inaccurate to claim they are crazy conservatives? Perhaps you're in deeper than you think.

What is still right of the Tea Party? Who? If you can acknowledge that extreme conservatives exist, then tell me how you disqualify the Tea Party candidates.

A
R
T
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:25 pm
@failures art,
Because they aren't.

It seems entirely reasonable, at least to me, that the burden of proof is on you, not me. You're not suggesting, are you, that we should all simply assume that any charge leveled against a person or group is true until proven otherwise?

It should be a hell of a lot easier to prove a group of crazy people are crazy than it is to prove a group of sane people are sane.

Nevertheless, if you want to assert they are crazy just because you say so...
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 07:03 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
This is almost too sad Finn. I expect more from you. Let's be clear here. Your opinion is that there are NO crazy conservatives? I'm asking for your opinion here.

Also, you did not answer my question: "What political positions are right of the Tea Party? Who are the people right of the Tea Party?

You seem to be in denial about where the Tea Party falls on the Left-Right scale. You admit it's not moderate, but seem squeamish to admit that they are on the far right. So, I'm assisting you Finn. You need help to back you your claim. If the Tea Party is not on the far right, who is further right of them so we can calibrate where you think they are.

A
R
T
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 01:31 pm
An article in a Nevada newspaper last month explains Angle's Tea Party appeal:
Quote:
Senate race: Sharron Angle's conservative credentials wins support of activist army
(By Anjeanette Damon • Reno Gazette-Journal • May 30, 2010

For former Assemblywoman Sharron Angle, what some have labeled as her quixotic bid for the U.S. Senate is more than a political campaign.

She likens it to a crusade.

"We're called as Americans to be vigilant to protect our liberty," she said in a recent interview. "At some point in each of our lives, we're called to service to defend and protect our Constitution."

In Angle's eyes, the country is under attack and she's willing to go to battle.

"What is a little bit disconcerting and concerning is the inability for sporting goods stores to keep ammunition in stock," she said. "That tells me the nation is arming. What are they arming for if it isn't that they are so distrustful of their government? They're afraid they'll have to fight for their liberty in more Second Amendment kinds of ways?

"That's why I look at this as almost an imperative. If we don't win at the ballot box, what will be the next step?"

Since leaving the Nevada Assembly, Angle has worked relentlessly and unsuccessfully to win higher office, believing that her staunch conservatism and band of devoted supporters would be enough. She has come close.

In 2006, she came within 421 votes of winning a Republican primary against then-Secretary of State Dean Heller for the 2nd Congressional District. In 2008, she nearly toppled Republican legend state Sen. Bill Raggio, R-Reno, in a primary.

Each time, she's been outdone by a better funded, better organized campaign that has been able to systematically turn out just enough voters for victory, largely by convincing the electorate Angle is too marginal for the general election ballot.

This year, however, with Republicans whipped into an anti-incumbent fury by the Democratic majority , Angle sees an opportunity unlike any other campaign year.

"I know that in the past, the political machinery has come to bear," she said. "Sometimes, I have won; and sometimes, I have lost. But that's really what the fight is. When you're in a war, sometimes you lose a battle or two."

This year, Angle counts among her soldiers an army of tea party activists, who have gathered in boisterous crowds by the thousands to protest the Democratic majority.

She won an endorsement from the Tea Party Express, a national political action committee created by longtime Republican operatives to organize the demonstrators who show up to the protests.

That endorsement, coupled with a series of significant campaign stumbles by the race's front-runner, Sue Lowden, has put Angle in serious contention for the GOP nomination.

At least one poll conducted by a Democratic organization had Angle leading the field in the final weeks of the campaign. In the most recent Las Vegas Review-Journal poll this month, she was within five points of Lowden. In April, she trailed by 40 points.

Her emergence as a front-runner, however, has highlighted the weaknesses that have led to her defeat in prior races.

Angle is criticized for a dogmatism that has prevented her from building strong enough coalitions to pass any significant conservative reform. She built a reputation on being the lone 'no' vote on important legislation, a reputation she wears as a badge of honor.

And she has put forward ideas that critics have painted as too fringe to be acceptable to most voters, such as trying to implement a drug-treatment program for prisoners developed by a Scientologist and used in Mexican prisons that relies on therapeutic massage and sauna treatments.

Her Republican opponents have sought to undermine her conservative credentials, pointing to spending bills she has supported while opposing the taxes needed to pay for the new programs, and her decision to twice support measures that would have increased lawmaker salaries.

But Angle is certain her conservative record will bring her victory, in both the primary and against Reid.

"I have already begun to build this conservative coalition that can reach across party lines into independent and Democratic circles," she said.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 02:48 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

This is almost too sad Finn. I expect more from you. Let's be clear here. Your opinion is that there are NO crazy conservatives? I'm asking for your opinion here.

Also, you did not answer my question: "What political positions are right of the Tea Party? Who are the people right of the Tea Party?

You seem to be in denial about where the Tea Party falls on the Left-Right scale. You admit it's not moderate, but seem squeamish to admit that they are on the far right. So, I'm assisting you Finn. You need help to back you your claim. If the Tea Party is not on the far right, who is further right of them so we can calibrate where you think they are.

A
R
T


Sorry to disappoint Young Jedi

I have to say I love the way you seek clarity through obfuscation.

Let us be clear here. My opinion is that Tea Party members are not, as a rule, "crazy conservatives."

I'm sure we can find a handful that consider themselves part of the Tea Party Movement who are fairly crazy, but the same can be said of any ideological group.

Identifying groups that are more conservative or further Right than the Tea Party Movement depends largely on how you use the terms. In certain ways I think the Religious Right and Libertarians can be considered more conservative or further Right than the Tea Party Movement, but its a pointless comparison. I don't see either of those groups as being crazy.

By the way, I don't think communist purists, as a rule, are crazy either.

The Tea Party Movement is very definately right of what amounts to the center in America and I don't have a problem acknowledging this. Your attempts to snare me in what you think are fine rhetorical traps are foolish.

Again, I will suggest that if you contend that members of the Tea Party Movement are, as a rule, crazy, then the burden of proof is yours. If you don't agree, that's fine, but you're simply engaging in mudslinging.





0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 02:57 pm
I was not trying to call all tea party members "crazy conservatives".

I was trying to indicate that I think that Republican candidates, trying to capitalize on the tea party movement, will give their opponents a chance to use "crazy conservative" soundbites against them.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 03:22 pm
@DrewDad,
And maporche just posted something in the "Spill, Baby, Spill" thread that kinda highlights what I'm talking about, here.

http://able2know.org/topic/144397-25#post-4175723

Quote:
RALEIGH, N.C. — Republican congressional candidate William "Bill" Randall is suggesting that the Obama administration and BP conspired to intentionally spill oil in the Gulf, resulting in 11 deaths and the worst environmental disaster in the nation's history.

Randall, who has aligned himself with the tea party movement, readily acknowledges that he has no evidence that what he says is true. But that is not stopping him from making the claim as he campaigns in the June 22 GOP runoff to face incumbent Democratic Rep. Brad Miller on the November ballot.


"Now, I'm not necessarily a conspiracy person, but I don't think enough investigation has been done on this," Randall said at a media conference on Tuesday. "Someone needs to be digging into that situation. Personally, and this is purely speculative on my part and not based on any fact, but personally I feel there is a possibility that there was some sort of collusion. I don't know how or why, but in that situation, if you have someone from a company violating a safety process and the government signing off on it, excuse me, maybe they wanted it to leak.

0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
Copyright © 2022 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/17/2022 at 05:15:57