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The A2K U.F.O. discussion thread

 
 
CarbonSystem
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 08:49 am
@xris,
xris wrote:

I know its difficult to debate this subject without being classified as loonie but you must maintain your logic and not be persuaded by wishful thinking.


It's quite alright, I'm already a loonie, at least as far as anyone is concerned. I know that I have seen things of whose origins I can only speculate. I don't need any more evidence than what my eyes have observed.
I don't expect it to convince anyone either.
But, when I would hear of someones suggestion at a sighting or even a hypothesis, I show them a certain amount of respect for it, not contempt for holding an unpopular view.
It's quite alright though, I'd rather face contempt and see what I've seen, than to fit in with the status and have never see anything.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 09:24 am
@CarbonSystem,
Hi Carbon, I'm not trying to be difficult with you. I'm sure you saw something, and it sounds like you (and others) were impressed with it. And since it was unidentified, I guess that qualifies it as a UFO.

But that really doesn't qualify as "evidence" for anything. And unfortunately the conclusion you are implying really requires extraordinary evidence, not just lights in the sky with multiple witnesses, that just doesn't do it.

This stuff is fun to speculate on but unless there is some conclusive knowledge gained from the information, then it's really of no more value than dreaming and wishful thinking.

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 10:55 am
@CarbonSystem,
You continue to dodge the question. How would any alien intelligence know that the Earth is more desireable? How would any alien intelligence know what sort of life this planet could support?

Don't tell me about "ignorance." In the first place, i did not describe the Earth as an insignificant rock, so keep your idiotic straw man arguments to yourself. I did specifically point out that we live in an out of the way part of the galaxy.

Therefore, the question remains and it remains valid: why would an alien intelligence com here? Do you have any conception of the immense amounts of resources and energy will be necessary to indulge in inter-stellar travel? Are you aware of the problems of microgravity and cosmic radiation? (For anyone who wants to start up that "parallel universe" nonsense, or some hooey about "worm holes," unless your worm hole can drop you off at Times Square, you still have to deal with microgravity and cosmic radiation once you arrive in the neighborhood and start looking around.)

We have many times discussed the alleged Fermi's paradox at this site. I get a lot of flak about it, but i don't see any reason to believe that there is any such paradox. Any civilization will have to climb the mountain of the enormous resources required for interstellar flight. On that basis, there is little to no reason to come looking here in the galactic backwoods, because the waste of resources will be enormous if you strike out. Much better to look in areas of the galaxy in which there are huge numbers of stars--if you don't find what you want at one, there's another nearby you can check out. Not so where we live.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 11:20 am
@Setanta,
Is it your intention to disprove the phenomena by questioning others conclusions? I would like to know if you believe, if the UFOs are signs of an alien origin or that they have an earthly explanations. We have two questions in my opinion ..one are they beyond our comprehension and two are they alien to our civilisation.
0 Replies
 
CarbonSystem
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 12:56 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

You continue to dodge the question.
...
Don't tell me about "ignorance." In the first place, i did not describe the Earth as an insignificant rock, so keep your idiotic straw man arguments to yourself. I did specifically point out that we live in an out of the way part of the galaxy.

I don't know what you're referring to with this straw man business. I'm not dodging any question, that would imply a conscious effort to avoid answering the question you are asking. I however, am not doing that.
If my answer is not satisfactory for you, then move on. I'm not goin to play rhetoric games with you all day long.

I would like to know setanta,
What would a part of the galaxy look like if it were not, "out of the way"?
That is to say, what does an 'on the way' part of the galaxy look like?
Where is it located?
One cannot be off the beaten path if there is no path. So surely, according to your logic, there must be a part of the galaxy that is on the way somewhere.

Setanta wrote:

Therefore, the question remains and it remains valid: why would an alien intelligence com here?


Because we are a planet which can obviously support life. The question will always remain when you're asking someone to speculate. I, of course, can not claim to be certain of an extra-terrestrials intentions!

Setanta wrote:

Do you have any conception of the immense amounts of resources and energy will be necessary to indulge in inter-stellar travel? Are you aware of the problems of microgravity and cosmic radiation?


Aware, yes.
However, I have nowhere near an understanding of inter-stellar travel, although you seem to be portraying yourself as pretty knowledgable. I would say that you're attempt to lecture me on the logistics of space-travel is irrelevent, since you're knowledge is not further than mine.

The point is moot anyways. The reason being, our dilemma is a unique one. Were trying to figure out how and why a certain, greater intelligence than our own is taking certain actions. Since it must be an assumed hypothetical that these beings are more intelligent, in order to discuss the question at hand, the logistics of their means of travel will already be out of our realm of understanding. And so how does one explain to setanta something out of the entire realm of human understanding?

So to clarify our quest, I would ask you:
Do you believe it is possible that the other forms of intelligence you've said you believe to exist could be more advanced and intelligent than ourselves?

Setanta wrote:

(For anyone who wants to start up that "parallel universe" nonsense, or some hooey about "worm holes," unless your worm hole can drop you off at Times Square, you still have to deal with microgravity and cosmic radiation once you arrive in the neighborhood and start looking around.)

The last time I checked, I never mentioned anything about worm holes explaining ufo's. You're defensive logic here is obvious and does not address a single statement I have made in our discourse.
There was a comment someone else made, and I distinctly remember remaining nuetral on the matter of parallel universes.

To quote myself as proof of your tendency to direct negative attention at me:
CarbonSystem wrote:

I'll give my opinion on the parallel universes bit, and my possible reason for why ufo's would be in our skies.

1. Parallel Universes: I have heard many times that the scientific community is starting to look at the possibility. Personally I feel that if the assumption of an infinite universe is true, of course all things can plausibly be true, but the still leaves us off where were currently at. So I'd not use parllel universes as the source for ufo's, although it seems they could be, it's just impossible for us to prove at this point, as we certainly don't understand them.

0 Replies
 
CarbonSystem
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 01:26 pm
Setanta,
The least you could do is try and point out specific things I present and explain their human origin to me.
There is photographic evidence I've submitted, perhaps it's 3 balls of lightning that rose from the ground?
I am ignorant to the cause of this phenomena.
Enlighten me, please.

Respectfully,
Carbon
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:48 pm
@CarbonSystem,
Quote:
How could we possibly answer that question
The reason I ask is that the limiting factor for speed is if it is made of matter. Matter is limited by the speed of light. There is no way around this.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Jun, 2010 05:54 pm
@CarbonSystem,
Quote:
I saw them rise vertically in a formation
You cant tell if they rise vertically unless you compare two locations...one directly under and one some distance off. Formations can not be determined. Stars appear to be in patterns yet they are hundreds to thousands of light years apart. Against a black background, the human eye will see all lights move around after a short time.
CarbonSystem
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 09:00 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
I saw them rise vertically in a formation
You cant tell if they rise vertically unless you compare two locations...one directly under and one some distance off. Formations can not be determined. Stars appear to be in patterns yet they are hundreds to thousands of light years apart. Against a black background, the human eye will see all lights move around after a short time.


Ok I see what you mean, allow me to ammend, or better word my meaning in the observation. To clarify, it appeared to me to be multiple lights rising in a vertical fashion. They did not however appear to be rising exactly vertically as if an invisible flagpole had raised them. Direction vertical, but their lat./long. did not appear to be exactly centered relative to eachother.
It was observed from two locations, neither of us were right underneath them.
0 Replies
 
pgardner31
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 May, 2013 03:40 pm
0 Replies
 
 

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