@farmerman,
farmerman wrote: Its the difference tween de jura and de facto.
Precisely. You probably know the Sherlock Holmes story where a lady tells Holmes she really did shoot and kill a man blackmailing her, and Holmes lets her walk free, telling Watson - quoting from memory here:
"Watson,
some crimes are beyond the law, and there is nothing, NOTHING, lower than a blackmailer".
@High Seas,
Quote: everyone else considers the Stars and Bars as the rebel yell flag and can be proud of displaying it anywhere the 1st Amendment is still protected
If we arent at least sensitive to the symbology of many of the "rebel flags" to many, then we sorta missed the entire lesson of this war, dontcha think?
The fight for civil rights for women, AMerican Indians, Blacks and (in a small priod of time) Germans and Japanese, was only begun with the civil war. Did the fight for civil rights into the 20th century have a relict issue of economy ?
I dont think so. I may be wrong but I think that the fight for civil rights was a clear demonstration of the approaching maturity of our nation.
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
. It is current history.
Have you thought this through? Blacks got the right to vote more than half a century before women in the US did - when did you hear any women complaining about it?! Don't become an unwitting accessory to blackmail - just occured to me btw the word itself may be a "discriminatory" term; it is said that our language shows profound truths about our thinking that may not be obvious to our conscious parsing of dictionary entries, and this may well be one of those cases, though I'm happy to defer to persons more familiar with literary issues than I am.
@farmerman,
O yhe, and you and Ionus and Brandon are incorrect. It was SOuth Carolina that declared war on the UNION. The Union, Buchanan and then Lincoln were treading on eggshells trying to effect compromises to keep the remaining border states in the union. It was hoped that this would be a war free period after seccession and division of the nation.
@farmerman,
Oyez, yourself, if you would - Brandon, Ionus and I aren't in collusion to blackmail anybody; speaking for myself only in that one, but I don't see that either of them have anything to gain by claiming compensations for long-ago injustices. I'm in wholehearted support of Holmes's dictum on blackmail (to wit:
"There is nothing lower than a blackmailer") and will repost the rebel yell flag if you don't mind, since the page turned since I last did.
@High Seas,
I didnt say anything about blackmailing. I juswt said I was surprisd at your ill manners on this topic. You may question my genetics but that doesnt advance your argument. I must have missed the issue for "long ago" compensation. It appears that with the Indian Claims Settlement act, the tribes ARE getting some degree of compensation.
@High Seas,
Quote:just occured to me btw the word itself may be a "discriminatory" term; it is said that our language shows profound truths about our thinking that may not be obvious to our conscious parsing of dictionary entries,
tres amusing!
The "black" is a reference to the evil of protection rackets against Scottish farmers in the 1500's.
It occurs to me that you get a point for the "stretch"
@panzade,
Ah! I knew I could count on you for a learned explanation - thank you.
Since you're reading my posts, I take it you noted my retraction of remarks previously addressed to you, and thank you again for your courtesy
When is the last time this happened to an Indian?
Black man's death, subsequent dragging investigated as hate crimeFrom Amanda Watts and Janet DiGiacomo, CNN
June 5, 2010 7:03 a.m. EDT
Gregory Collins, 19, is charged in the death of Anthony Hill,
Both men worked in a turkey processing plant
30-year-old Anthony Hill's near-nude body found on South Carolina road
Rope around neck and upper torso
Officers follow trail of blood and human tissue to suspect's house
(CNN) -- This week's shooting death and subsequent dragging of a black man in South Carolina are being investigated as a possible hate crime, the Newberry County Sheriff's Office said Friday.
Sheriff Lee Foster said the body of 30-year-old Anthony Hill was found early Wednesday on a road near an elementary school in the town of Pomaria, 35 miles west-northwest of Columbia.
Hill had a single gun shot wound to the head, his body was nearly nude and a rope was around his neck and upper torso, Foster said.
Foster said Hill's body -- which carried no identification -- was found around 4:30 a.m. Wednesday by a motorist, who called 911. Officers followed a trail of blood and human tissue nine miles to the trailer park where Hill's co-worker Gregory Collins lives, surrounded his trailer for nearly four hours and finally resorted to tear gas, Foster said. "He came outside and gave himself up," Foster added.
Collins, 19, who is white, is charged with murder. Both men worked in Newberry at the Louis Rich turkey processing plant, said Foster.
"They did know each other; they worked in the same industry, on the same shift but different divisions," said Foster. "Neighbors told us the two spent most of the day together Tuesday. They were seen on a porch drinking together."
Hill, an Army veteran who lived in the neighboring county of Fairfield, was estranged from his wife and had two children, Foster said.
Investigators have not concluded that the killing is a hate crime, but are looking at it as one, according to Foster. "We called the FBI out of an abundance of caution," he said. "We have no motive whatsoever as to why these two gentlemen would have been together, then one shoots the other in the head and drags him down the road. It's a horrific act of violence."
Collins, who is being held in the Newberry County Detention Center, has been assigned a public defender
@farmerman,
Did you miss my post ref the website of the Bureau of Indian Affairs? It was posted a couple of pages back.
Btw, and most relevantly, I recall exactly the press conference in which the late President Reagan told of his experience during his one (and only, ever) visit to said bureau, during which he noticed a man crying on his desk. Reagan approached him to ask what was wrong, and the man, after managing to control his sobbing, said "I just heard my Indian died!" True story, and very instructive on the works of federal bureaucracy
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
When is the last time this happened to an Indian?
Indian, not recently, white man (or woman) quite often. Read the FBI statistics in your free time before posting, if you would:
Quote:According to Federal Bureau of Investigation's statistics from 1995-2002, Whites are the second most targeted group for racially motivated hate crime.....This study will employ a correlational research design to examine the relationship between the independent variables of economic despair, demographic change and minority hate crime with incidents of anti-White hate crime. Multivariate linear regression will be used to analyze the data. Hate crimes data was collected from the New York City Bias Crime Unit...
http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/2/6/3/7/p126377_index.html
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
I didnt say anything about blackmailing. I juswt said I was surprisd at your ill manners on this topic. You may question my genetics.....
What? I don't know you from Adam, other than online. For all I know, never having actually seen you, you may be of Chinese descent. What difference does that make - and how on earth can you claim observing "ill manners" on any topic from me? I punctiliously stick to facts, when ascertainable.
@High Seas,
Quote: Blacks got the right to vote more than half a century before women in the US did
Female suffrge was unconditional. Blacks were only recognized as humans end of the Civil War.and got the vote (Statutorily) in 1870. YET , for another century almost, blaxcks were disenfrnchised of their right to vote by poll taxes etc. This wasnt done away with until 1964-5 with the Voting Rights ACt of 1965 and the 24th Amendment which did away with poll taxes.
Indians were only officially recognized as HUMANS as a consequence of the STanding Bear trials in 1879 and , while recognized as people there was no effort to grant citizenhip, that didnt happen till the Indian Citizenship ACt of 1924. However the ICA failed to grant suffrage for Indians (many states forbad Indians from voting by soem formula of the BIA). Universal suffrage wasnt including Indians in entirety until 1962.
@High Seas,
Quote:I take it you noted my retraction of remarks previously addressed to you, and thank you again for your courtesy
I was rude not to acknowledge it.
@High Seas,
Quote: @farmerman,
Did you miss my post ref the website of the Bureau of Indian Affairs? It was posted a couple of pages back.
I didnt see it. what was its application in this go-round?
@High Seas,
Quote: So true, Gunga - but the obsessed fanatics like the one who started this thread are congenitally incapable of grasping the fact (FACT) that perpetual whiners about generations-ago problems don't carry any weight over to NOW
I think your adherence to the punctilios took a break in this post> I assume Im one of the "congenitally defective fanatics and whiners". I appreciate reminding me of my genetic shortfalls but I dont think that the POV was called for in this discussion . Youve usually shown more class. However, I shall be forewarned.
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
I appreciate reminding me of my genetic shortfalls ...
WHAT genetic shortfalls?!
Please refer to my previous post - I never saw you in my life and know nothing of any "genetic shortfalls" you might be afflicted with - and you've read enough of my posts over the years to know beyond doubt that, since I just this second learned of them from you, I genuinely wish you all the best.
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:This was a bit over the top for you.
Not really. HS is a ****-stirrer
par excellence.
Since history is funny, I would not want to alienate white Southerners, nor say anything pejorative about their history, since it is quite possible that the South will become the focal point of this nation's strength in the future, and I would not want white Southerners to be alienated from the North, due to the ongoing concerns of an ever smaller segment of the total U.S. population. As many a white Southerner has keened, "the South shall RISE again!" over the last 145 years.
In the way of analogy, like when U.S. Jews lament the Holocaust. Few tell them to shut-up; or tell them enough already. However, no one expects nice Gentiles to join in the lament. That is how I take the whole Confederate flag issue; it is a problem for African-Americans (and their progressive side-kicks). But, why make it an issue for so many Americans whose family was not even here during that time???
Personally, I think a thread of this nature is divisive for Americans.
@High Seas,
From the Fbi's own web site, for 2008:
Racial bias
In 2008, law enforcement agencies reported that 4,704 offenses among single-bias hate crime incidents were racially motivated. Of these offenses:
72.6 percent were motivated by anti-black bias.
17.3 percent stemmed from anti-white bias.
5.5 percent were a result of bias against groups of individuals consisting of more than one race (anti-multiple races, group).
3.4 percent resulted from anti-Asian/Pacific Islander bias.
1.3 percent were motivated by anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native bias. (Based on Table