61
   

The Confederacy was About Slavery

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 09:21 am
For anyone who is willing to admit (if at least only to themselves) that they are not all that well informed about the American Civil War, in this post in the "All Things Civil War" thread, i have posted a bibliography of some of my personal favorite books on the war. I would point out that this is just a few, i've read many more, there are many, many more to be read, and in looking at some of the comments made here (Bill), i'm convinced that most participants in this thread haven't read nearly enough reliable history on this subject.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 09:30 am
@Setanta,
We are all so glad that we have such an outstanding expert on the subject of the civil war and we are all deeply sorry to had disagree with your opinions. Drunk

Oh the same go for CI being an outstanding military expert on this thread.

Maybe you two could get together and write a book or two on the civil war.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 09:31 am
Maybe you could take a break and read a reliable book or two on the Civil War. Get back to us when you've done so, 'k?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 09:48 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Maybe you could take a break and read a reliable book or two on the Civil War. Get back to us when you've done so, 'k?


Somehow I had a feeling that my collection is just as large as your. You show me your and I will show you mine. Very Happy

Second comment one of the things I love about that period is that we have one hell of a lot of primary sources and I normally give far more weight to the men who was involved in the civil war then to those who wish to rewrite history.

Reading the books of Jefferson David. Grant and Longstreet and on and on along with the dairies of everyday men and women caught up in that conflict can grant us an insight that we never had to this degree for any conflict further back in the past.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 09:55 am
@Setanta,
When I reads Grant book I think of him struggling to get it done before throat cancer end his life with reporters on the roof top of a near by building on a death watch.

The damn reporters had sky rockets with them to be set off when they had reasons to think he had pass away as a communication link to the nearest telegraph office.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 09:56 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Reading the books of Jefferson David9sic). Grant and Longstreet and on and on along with the dairies of everyday men and women caught up in that conflict can grant us an insight that we never had to this degree for any conflict further back in the past.
Thats why Ive been posting from the Journal of AMerican Historians, its a conduit of primary sources. Ive read Grantsw works ewxtensively and he can be, like most of them, a little generous with his exploits.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 09:57 am
@BillRM,
Certainly that war is just about the best documented event in American history. However, thinking that because one was a participant, one knows more than careful researchers and historians would be laughable, if it weren't such a patheric and common point of view. The comments you have made in this thread, especially the idiotic claim that southern officers were superior to their nothern counterparts, convinces me that for however much you've read, you understood little and learned less. Anyone reading Grant's account of Cold Harbor, for example, would think it was an unimportant skirmish which was over in a few hours and which didn't slow down the advance of his army at all.

You can make allegations about the size of your library to your heart's content--as long as you spew the kind of stupidity that you've done in this thread, you're not going to convince anybody that you know what you're writing about.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 09:58 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Ive read Grantsw works ewxtensively and he can be, like most of them, a little generous with his exploits.


A felicitous and charitable turn of phrase.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:01 am
@Setanta,
Third comment Prof Bob Packett is in the middle of doing a podcast serial on the civil war that is outstanding.

http://www.summahistorica.com/
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:05 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Ive read Grantsw works ewxtensively and he can be, like most of them, a little generous with his exploits.


If you think Grant is bad try reading Jefferson David book!!!!!

You can download it from the Gutenberg site.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:07 am
Jesus Christ . . . that's twice now . . . his name was Jefferson DAVIS
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:11 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Anyone reading Grant's account of Cold Harbor, for example, would think it was an unimportant skirmish which was over in a few hours and which didn't slow down the advance of his army at all.


So the best general that the union had in command during the civil war **** up big time at cold Harbor and you bring that up in defending the idea that the southern military leadership was not superior to the Northern leadership overall?

As far as getting a false impression by reading one man book who is being self serving that is why you read books by men on both sides.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:12 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
his name was Jefferson DAVIS


Oh my I am hanging my head is shame....................
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:16 am
@BillRM,
If you read as well as you write, there's no reason to take you seriously at all. I did not bring up Grant's account of Cold Harbor to support the contention that southern officers were not superior to northern officers--so that's just some typical straw man bullshit on your part. I brought it up to point out that one cannot rely on a few primary sources to form a complete view of any particular event. Perhaps, though, you could tell us what other primary account of that battle you've read.

I also have not said that Grant was the "best general the union had in command," nor would i ever. I don't consider him the best general in Federal service. For that laurel, i would recommend George Thomas. His only fault was hiding his light under a bushel.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:17 am
@BillRM,
You should read what you write (you pulled that "Jefferson David" bullshit twice in a row), and hang your head in shame over every post with which you blight this site.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:24 am
@Setanta,
Fool Grant was the best general given the overall command of the union forces without question.

Secondary men abilities who was never given overall command is beside the point.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:27 am
@BillRM,
I assure you, that in view of your demonstrated ignorance and your obvious lack of comprehension, what you think is beside the point is a matter of indifference to me. And you call anyone else a fool? HA ! ! !
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:49 am
@Setanta,
By the way my friend the northern general you are in love with George Henry Thomas is more similar to Lee on the battlefield then Grant or any of the others northern generals given overall command.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 10:59 am
@BillRM,
Now you really display your ignorance. Thomas had all the staff the law allowed, used them assiduously, and he was never profligate of the lives of his men--both of which are valid criticisms of Lee. I am not and never will be your friend. Your ignorance is appalling.

I'm not in love with Thomas, by the way--i don't swing that way--maybe you do, though, which would explain your confusion.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 11:00 am
@BillRM,
Here's a good biography of General Thomas.

Quote:
George Henry Thomas

George Henry Thomas Born: 31-Jul-1816
Birthplace: Southampton County, VA
Died: 28-Mar-1870
Location of death: San Francisco, CA
Cause of death: Stroke
Remains: Buried, Oakwood Cemetery, Troy, NY

Gender: Male
Race or Ethnicity: White
Occupation: Military

Nationality: United States
Executive summary: Union Army General

Military service: US Army; Union Army

The American Civil War general George Henry Thomas was born in Southampton county, Virginia, on the 31st of July 1816. Graduating from West Point in 1840, he served as an artillery subaltern in the war against the Seminole Indians in Florida (1841), and in the Mexican War at the battles of Fort Brown, Resaca de la Palma, Monterey and Buena Vista, receiving three brevets for distinguished gallantry in action. From 1851 to 1854 he was an instructor at West Point. In 1855 he was appointed by Jefferson Davis, then Secretary of War, a major of the 2nd Cavalry. His regimental superiors were Albert Sidney Johnston, Robert E. Lee and Hardee. All three resigned at the outbreak of the Civil War and Thomas was long in doubt as to his duty. He finally decided to adhere to the United States. He was promoted in rapid succession to be lieutenant-colonel and colonel in the regular army, and brigadier-general of volunteers. In command of an independent force in eastern Kentucky, on the 19th of January 1862, he attacked the Confederate General Zollicoffer at Mill Springs, and completely routed him, gaining by vigorous attack and relentless pursuit the first important Union victory in the West. He served under Don Carlos Buell and was offered, but refused, the chief command in the anxious days before the battle of Perryville. Under William S. Rosecrans he was engaged at Stone River and was in charge of the most important part of the manoeuvring from Decherd to Chattanooga. At the battle of Chickamauga on the 19th of September 1863 he achieved great distinction, his firmness on that disastrous field, where he gained the name of "The Rock of Chickamauga", being all that saved a terrible defeat from becoming a hopeless rout. He succeeded Rosecrans in command of the Army of the Cumberland shortly before the great victory of Chattanooga, in which Thomas and his army played a most conspicuous part, his divisions under Sheridan, Wood and Baird carrying Missionary Ridge in superb style. In Sherman's advance through Georgia in the spring of 1864, the Army of the Cumberland numbered over 60,000 men present for duty. Thomas handled these with great skill in all the engagements and flanking movements from Chattanooga to Atlanta. When John Bell Hood broke away from Atlanta in the autumn of 1864, menaced Sherman's long line of communications and endeavoured to force Sherman to follow him, Sherman determined to abandon his communications and march to the sea, leaving to Thomas the difficult task of dealing with Hood. Thomas hastened back with a comparatively small force, racing with Hood to reach Nashville, where he was to receive reinforcements. At the battle of Franklin on the 30th of November 1864, a large part of Thomas's force, under command of John McAllister Schofield, checked Hood long enough to cover the concentration at Nashville. Here Thomas had to organize his force, which was drawn from all parts of the West and included many young troops and even quartermaster's employees. He declined to attack until his army was ready and the ice which covered the ground had melted sufficiently to enable his men to move. The whole of the North, and even General Ulysses S. Grant himself, were impatient of the delay. General John A. Logan was sent with an order to supersede Thomas, and soon afterwards Grant left the Army of the Potomac to take command in person. Before either arrived Thomas made his attack (December 15th-16th, 1864) and inflicted on Hood the most crushing defeat sustained in the open field by any army on either side in the whole war. Hood's army was completely ruined and never again appeared on the field. For this brilliant victory Thomas was made a major-general in the regular army and received the thanks of Congress. After the termination of the Civil War he commanded military departments in Kentucky and Tennessee until 1869, when he was ordered to command the division of the Pacific with headquarters at San Francisco. He died there of apoplexy, while writing an answer to an article criticizing his military career, on the 28th of March 1870.

Thomas was beloved by his soldiers, for whom he always had a fatherly solicitude. He was a man of solid rather than brilliant attainments; he remained in the army all his life, and never had any ambitions outside of it; the nickname of "Slow Trot Thomas" given him by the cadets at West Point characterized him physically and mentally; his mind acted deliberately, and his temperament was somewhat sluggish; but his judgment was accurate, his knowledge of his profession was complete in every detail, and when he had finally grasped a problem, and the time arrived for action, he struck his blow with extraordinary vigor and rapidity. The only two battles in which he was in chief command -- Mill Springs and Nashville, one at the beginning and the other near the end of the war -- were signal victories, without defect and above criticism. His service during the intervening three years of almost incessant conflict and manoeuvring was marked by loyal obedience to his superiors, skilful command of his subordinates, and successful accomplishment of every task entrusted to him.

University: US Military Academy, West Point (1840)


Thanks for bringing up his name. For me, at least, he was obscured by what I've known about the other Civil War generals - probably forgotten most of it - through my visit to the cyclorama in Atlanta and the battlefields of Gettysburg and their cyclorama.
0 Replies
 
 

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