18
   

Israel Kills 10 in Palestinian Aid Convoy

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 07:39 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
People died

They attacked the IDF

The IDF raided their ship

The ship was civilians with no weapons

The ship was planning to cross the blockade

The ship was still in international waters


No, different sequence. (Sorry to be pedantic, art.)

The ship was still in international waters

The ship was civilians with no weapons.

The ship was planning to cross the blockade.

The IDF raided their ship

They attacked the IDF (in response)

People died.

msolga
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 07:51 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
On the other hand, the Flotilla directly stated that their goal was to raise awareness about the blockade by trying to get past it. They knew, or definitely should have known, this would not happen successfully. It seems to me that they did aim to provoke a conflict. I doubt they knew it would have lethal consequences, but I don't see their actions as being any more compromising than Israel's.


The blockade itself is the most provocative aspect of this whole sorry saga. And somehow the "story" of it's impact on ordinary Gazan citizens had gone pretty much off the radar.
Clearly the aim of the activists was to (once again) draw world attention to the desperate situation in the Gaza Strip. And in that they have definitely been successful. The unfortunate loss of life could easily have avoided if the Israeli authorities had taken a different approach, as many commentators in the Israeli media have been saying.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 08:10 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
Israel Kills 10 in Palestinian Aid Convoy


You misspelled "Israel kills ten arms smugglers".

My suggestion to Bibi: Do what I'd do. Send a messenger to the UN general assembly, preferably a corporal or sergeant so that the shitbirds there might understand that commissioned officers in the IDF have better things to do, with the following message:

Quote:

Greetings, dear hearts, I have been instructed to deliver this message to you:

You have thirty days in which to move your kept savages to some place in the muslim world a minimum of 1000 km from Israel; any which we find an inch closer than that on day 31, we're gonna ******* kill, have a nice day.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 08:38 pm
@gungasnake,
Gunga is certainly a front runner as the most ignorant American ever to live and crawl.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 09:44 pm
Quote:
Israel defiant as more ships head for Gaza
By Middle East correspondent Anne Barker, staff
Updated 44 minutes ago


http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201006/r576870_3600181.jpg
More on the way: An Israeli vessel escorts the Mavi Marmara into Ashdod (AFP: Menahem Kahana)

Israel has vowed to block more aid ships heading for Gaza, despite growing condemnation over a military raid that left nine people dead and dozens injured.

Israel has faced a barrage of protest from around the world since soldiers raided a flotilla of aid ships on Monday and began shooting at passengers.

The Israeli government is standing its ground against the United Nations, NATO and other world leaders who have condemned its actions, and insists the soldiers acted in self defence after being attacked by the ship's passengers.

Aid groups say they are determined to push on with plans for at least two more ships as part of a campaign to break the blockade on Gaza.

One ship is now off the coast of Italy and could reach Gaza within a week, but the Israeli government says it will not let any ships through.


"We will not let any ships reach Gaza and supply what has become a terrorist base threatening the heart of Israel," deputy defence minister Matan Vilnai told public radio.

Free Gaza Movement lawyer Audrey Bomse says a cargo ship called the Rachel Corrie is on the way to the Middle East.

"We're planning on continuing to send it into Gaza," Ms Bomse said. "We want to make sure that we try to not get anywhere near Gazan waters or Israeli waters at night so we avoid the chaos."

This morning Israel said it would immediately deport hundreds of foreign activists who were seized during the raid on the Turkish ship Mavi Marmara, which was leading the aid convoy.

A spokesman for Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said all 680 activists held would be freed, including two dozen Israel had earlier threatened to prosecute for allegedly assaulting its troops.
...<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/02/2915852.htm
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 11:09 pm
@msolga,
My point with the onion metaphor was to retrace it backwards with the most recent layer on top.

A
R
T
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 01:31 am
@failures art,
Oh right!
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 02:50 am
Latest update from the Guardian (UK)
Note: The US blocked an attempt at the UN security council for an international inquiry yesterday.:


Quote:
Gaza flotilla activists deported to Jordan claim Israeli mistreatment

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/6/2/1275464190312/Gaza-flotilla-activists--006.jpg
Gaza flotilla activists Gaza flotilla activists arrive back in Jordan after being deported by Israel following its deadly assault on pro-Palestinian supporters. Photograph: Jamal Nasrallah/EPA

Israel today started deporting all the detained activists seized during its botched raid on an aid shipment to Gaza, as some of the first to be freed spoke of their mistreatment at the hands of the Israelis.

A group of 124 pro-Palestinian activists from 12 Muslim nations crossed the border in five Jordanian buses. Another 200 activists have been transferred from a holding centre to Israel's airport near Tel Aviv, a prison service spokesman said. The remaining activists will be released throughout the day, the spokesman said.

Yesterday Israel had indicated it might prosecute some of the activists.

The decision to free the detainees came as more accounts from those on the ships began to emerge.

One Briton who was on one of the boats heading towards Gaza arrived back in Britain last night.

IT professional Hasan Nowarah, from Glasgow, described the moment the aid flotilla was stormed by Israeli troops.

He told Sky News that the Mavi Marmara ship was surrounded by helicopters and Zodiac assault craft.

"All you could see was screaming and bullets. Out of the blue as I looked around our ship, all I could see were hundreds of Zodiacs. Hundreds of Zodiacs full of soldiers, and big ships, lots of ships, and I believe as well submarines in the sea."

The assault left nine dead and dozens wounded and has led to criticism of Israel and increasing calls for an independent, impartial inquiry.

One of the group deported to Jordan today, Walid al-Tabtabai, a Kuwaiti politician who was on board one of the ships with other activists from Muslim countries, said: "The Israelis roughed up and humiliated all of us, women, men and children.

"They were brutal and arrogant, but our message reached every corner of the world that the blockade on Gaza is unfair and should be lifted immediately."

Like many passengers on the flotilla he insisted there were no weapons on any of the ships.

Algerian Izzeddine Zahrour said Israeli authorities "deprived us of food, water and sleep and we weren't allowed to use the toilet".

"It was an ugly kidnapping and subsequently bad treatment in Israeli jail," he said. "They handcuffed us, pushed us around and humiliated us."

Mauritanian Mohammed Gholam said Israel "wanted us to sign documents saying that we entered Israel illegally".

An Algerian activist, who only gave her first name as Sabrina, accused Israeli commandos of taking a one-year-old child hostage.

"They point a gun to his head in front of his Turkish parents to force the captain of our ship to stop sailing," she said.

A Jordanian government spokesman said there were 30 Jordanians in the group. Jordan is one of two Arab nations with a signed peace treaty with Israel. Kuwaiti ambassador Sheik Faisal Al Sabah said the group included 16 Kuwaitis. He said the other activists came from Azerbaijan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Algeria, Morocco, Mauritania, Yemen, Oman and Bahrain.

Turkey has led criticism of the raid, accusing Israel of committing a "massacre", and the UN security council demanded an impartial investigation. There were reports in the Israeli media today that Israel had ordered the families of its diplomats in Turkey to leave that country because of Turkish anger at the raid.

Washington blocked an attempt at the UN security council for an international inquiry yesterday, issuing a mild statement regretting the loss of life. Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, later called the situation in Gaza "unsustainable".

"Israel's legitimate security needs must be met, just as the Palestinians' legitimate needs for sustained humanitarian assistance and regular access to reconstruction materials must also be assured," she said.


Nick Clegg, the deputy prime minister, said this morning that Israel's blockade of Gaza was "an absolute humanitarian catastrophe" that was "not in Israel's own long-term self-interest".

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme this morning that Israel had "every right" to protect its people from terrorist threat, but said: "What I ask my Israeli friends and Israeli politicians and officials I meet is: what's the strategy, where do you go next, how are you going to secure in the long term, not just day to day, the security which you rightly crave?"

Last night, the foreign secretary, William Hague, said 31 British nationals and a further 11 with dual nationality were known to have been detained after the seizure of the vessels as they attempted to breach the Israeli blockade of the territory.

The Foreign Office confirmed that 29 of the Britons had received a visit " with no complaints about their treatment.

Mark Regev, a spokesman for Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu, said that the detainees were being treated in line with international practice.

"We are not charging them with anything, we have detained them and we will help them leave our country," he told the BBC.

There was concern among friends and relatives in the UK who complained that they were unable to establish contact with the detainees.

Rachel Bridgeland, whose partner, Peter Venner, 63, from Ryde, Isle of Wight, was on the Mavi Marmara, said that the government should be putting more pressure on Israel.

"It's absolutely terrible not knowing what has happened to him and it's terrible that the British government hasn't done more, but they don't want to fall out with Israel," she said.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/02/gaza-flotilla-activists-deported-jordan
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 08:13 am
Appears the Obama Administration may be coming through for Israel in a pinch, afterall:


Quote:
“The situation is that they’re so isolated right now that it’s not only that we’re the only ones who will stick up for them,” said an American official. “We’re the only ones who believe them " and what they’re saying is true.”


Quote:
The White House, in sharp contrast, avoided any hint of criticism of the Israeli action in its public statements, and American officials appeared sympathetic to Israeli explanations that their soldiers were attacked by flotilla participants.

The U.S. “deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained" in the Israeli raid, deputy White House press secretary Bill Burton said in the first of three carefully modulated statements Monday, The administration, he said, is "working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy."

The White House rendition of a call between Obama and Netanyahu also strained to avoid condemnation, and went out of the way to note that many of those wounded in the incident “are being treated in Israeli hospitals.”

Six hours later, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley issued a third statement, adding that the U.S. expects that the Israeli government " the unstated emphasis was not the United Nations " “will conduct a free and credible investigation.”



http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37992.html
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 12:26 pm
Are we 100% sure there were no weapons or "war material" on those aid ships?

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177169

Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 12:38 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Are we 100% sure there were no weapons or "war material" on those aid ships?

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177169




Quote:
Meanwhile Tuesday, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan warned Israel not to test Ankara’s patience.

“Turkey’s hostility is as strong as its friendship is valuable,” he said. “Israel in no way can legitimize this murder, it cannot wash its hand of this blood.”


This guy is irrational or a tacit approver of the intent of the provocation.

This the guy who said the following about Turkey's Armenian genocide

Quote:
“In 1915 and before that, it was the Armenian side that pursued a policy aimed at exterminating our people which led to hunger, misery and death,” he said in a speech delivered in the city of Canakkale. “Forgetting all that is unfair and heartless. Our warriors always respected ancestral laws and did not kill innocent people even on the battlefield.”


http://asbarez.com/78534/erdogan-accuses-armenians-of-%E2%80%98exterminating%E2%80%99-turks/

Quote:
This comment, officials said, could signify a change in Turkish military posture in the event that another flotilla is dispatched to the Gaza Strip. One official said that the chances that Turkey would send navy ships were slim " due to its membership in NATO " but that the issue was of great concern.

“This is a definite possibility that we need to prepare for,” a senior defense official said.


Talk about adding fuel to a fire.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 02:02 pm
@mysteryman,
Ummmmm, MM, you were given the information you asked for.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 09:21 pm
Biden: Israel right to stop Gaza Flotilla from breaking blockade

Says Joe, "What's the big deal here?"
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 12:58 am
@Irishk,
Quote:
Says Joe, "What's the big deal here?"


No big deal, Joe.

Just 1.5 million Palestinians existing in a hell on earth on the Gaza Strip, that's all.
With no end in sight, thanks to you & your ilk.

And here I was thinking the Obama administration would (finally!) be a breath of fresh air, a positive influence on the conflict between the Israelis & the Palestinians. A more even-handed approach, at last.
I actually believed that. Silly me.

It's just the same old, same old.
Nothing has changed.
(Profoundly depressing.)

Harking back to an earlier post to this thread:

Quote:
Let's not forget, Israel fired phosphorus shells into a UN compound in Gaza, a compound which was being used as a refuge for civilian families during last year's invasion.

Israel plays by no-one's rules but its own, and the UN might as well save its breath, and its ink.

Not until the USA comes out and speaks the truth will the situation change for the better.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 02:11 am
@msolga,
And now this, from the NYTimes:

So, was Mr Bidden just having a spontaneous, off-the-cuff moment on a US talk show? Does his status as VP mean nothing politically in terms of his public pronouncements? Do his (apologist) words mean nothing at all but his own private opinion?

At the moment it appears to be Israel/USA against most of the rest of the world, in regard to the Israeli blockade off the Gaza Strip.

Let's see what the US actually does from this point on. Let's see if these words from the Obama administration mean a different approach this time.

Sadly, I won't be holding my breath for a change of US attitude to Israel & the blockade, going by the record so far.Neutral


Quote:
New Israeli Tack Needed on Gaza, U.S. Officials Say

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/06/03/world/FLOTILLA_337-395/FLOTILLA_337-395-articleLarge.jpg
Demonstrators waved Palestinian flags in Istanbul on Wednesday during a protest against Israel's raid on a Turkish ship.
By ETHAN BRONNER

Published: June 2, 2010

WASHINGTON " The Obama administration considers Israel’s blockade of Gaza to be untenable and plans to press for another approach to ensure Israel’s security while allowing more supplies into the impoverished Palestinian area, senior American officials said Wednesday.

The officials say that Israel’s deadly attack on a flotilla trying to break the siege and the resulting international condemnation create a new opportunity to push for increased engagement with the Palestinian Authority and a less harsh policy toward Gaza.

“There is no question that we need a new approach to Gaza,” said one official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the policy shift is still in the early stages. He was reflecting a broadly held view in the upper reaches of the administration.


Israel would insist that any approach take into account three factors: Israel’s security; the need to prevent any benefit to Hamas, the Islamist rulers of Gaza; and the four-year-old captivity of an Israeli soldier held by Hamas, Staff Sgt. Gilad Shalit.

Since the botched raid that killed nine activists on Monday, the Israeli government has said that the blockade was necessary to protect Israel against the infiltration into Gaza of weapons and fighters sponsored by Iran.

If there were no blockade in place, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Israeli television on Wednesday evening, it would mean “an Iranian port in Gaza.” He added, “Israel will continue to maintain its right to defend itself.”

But the American officials said they believed that even Mr. Netanyahu understood that a new approach was needed.

Yet Mr. Netanyahu has resisted American pressure in the past. The Obama administration initially demanded a complete freeze on Israeli settlements in the West Bank, but had to accept a 10-month partial freeze. Pressure on Israel also carries domestic political risks for Mr. Obama, given the passion of its supporters in the United States
.

Israel withdrew its soldiers and settlers from Gaza five years ago and built the makings of an international border. But after Hamas, which rejects Israel’s existence, won Palestinian parliamentary elections in 2006, Israel cut back on the amount of goods permitted into Gaza. When Sergeant Shalit was seized in a raid in June of that year, commerce was further reduced.

A year later, Hamas drove the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority entirely out of Gaza in four days of street battles, leading Israel to cut off all shipments in and out except basic food, humanitarian aid and urgent medical supplies.

Hamas declines to recognize Israel’s right to exist, renounce violence or accept previous accords signed between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. The diplomatic group known as the Quartet, made up of the United States, Russia, the European Union and the United Nations, has said that until Hamas meets those requirements, the Quartet will not deal with it.

But the world powers have grown increasingly disillusioned with the blockade, saying that it has created far too much suffering in Gaza and serves as a symbol not only of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians but of how the West is seen in relation to the Palestinians.

“Gaza has become the symbol in the Arab world of the Israeli treatment of Palestinians, and we have to change that,” the senior American official said. “We need to remove the impulse for the flotillas. The Israelis also realize this is not sustainable.”

At a meeting of the Quartet a year ago in Italy, for example, the group asserted that the current situation was not sustainable and called for the unimpeded provision and distribution of humanitarian aid within Gaza, as well as the reopening of crossing points.

But Obama administration officials made it clear that the deaths had given a new urgency to changing the policy.

Pressure against the blockade continued to grow on Wednesday: Turkey, which withdrew its ambassador to Israel after the raid, said full restoration of diplomatic ties was contingent on an end to the blockade.

The new British prime minister, David Cameron, also called for an end to the blockade, criticizing the raid as “completely unacceptable.”

In Israel, officials say there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza because the Defense Ministry makes sure that enough food and medicine reach the population. But international aid groups assert that real malnutrition is growing to about 10 percent and that problems with medical and sanitation supplies are rising perilously because of the Israeli and Egyptian embargoes.


In recent months, Israel has permitted increased " although still quite limited " movement of goods and people into and out of Gaza. One Israeli official said that under Mr. Netanyahu there had been a 20 percent increase in goods, including some limited building materials under third-party supervision so that Hamas would not get hold of them.

But Israel remains adamant, saying that if cement and steel were allowed to pass in any serious amount, they would end up in Hamas missiles and other weapons that would be aimed at Israel.

Discussion in Israel this week has largely focused on the details of the seizure of the ship where the deaths occurred rather than on the broader question of whether the blockade is good policy.

Amos Gilad, a senior defense official, said in an interview that in Gaza, “we only have bad solutions, worse solutions and worst solutions.” He added: “Hamas is a terrorist organization sworn to Israel’s destruction. We, on the contrary, are facilitating them to bring in all kinds of food, materials; they are even exporting strawberries and flowers.”

Aluf Benn, a senior editor and columnist for the left-wing Israeli newspaper Haaretz wrote on Wednesday that the time had come for a new Gaza policy.

“The attempt to control Gaza from outside, via its residents’ diet and shopping lists, casts a heavy moral stain on Israel and increases its international isolation,” he wrote. “Every Israeli should be ashamed of the list of goods prepared by the Defense Ministry, which allows cinnamon and plastic buckets into Gaza, but not houseplants and coriander. It’s time to find more important things for our officers and bureaucrats to do than update lists.”


He suggested sealing the Israel-Gaza border and informing the international community that Israel was no longer responsible for Gaza in any way, forcing Gaza to turn to Egypt as its corridor to the outside world.

Egypt has consistently rejected such an idea in the past, asserting that Gaza is Israel’s responsibility because it has occupied it since 1967.

One of the primary rationales for the blockade offered by Israeli officials is the need to create a material and political gap between the West Bank, run by the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority, and Gaza, run by Hamas. And political surveys have shown a preference for Fatah and discontent with Hamas among Palestinians. But the latest events, the American officials say, have given Hamas a dangerous lift.

Isabel Kershner contributed reporting from Jerusalem.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/world/middleeast/03policy.html?hp
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 09:05 am
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:


Wow!

Quote:
"I think Israel has an absolute right to deal with its security interest. I put all this back on two things: one, Hamas, and, two, Israel's need to be more generous relative to the Palestinian people who are in trouble in Gaza. . . . [The Israelis have] said, 'Here you go. You're in the Mediterranean. This ship -- if you divert slightly north you can unload it and we'll get the stuff into Gaza.' So what's the big deal here? What's the big deal of insisting it go straight to Gaza? Well, it's legitimate for Israel to say, 'I don't know what's on that ship. These guys are dropping eight -- 3,000 rockets on my people.'"


Finally an issue on which I can agree with the likeable Joe Biden.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 10:46 am
Senator Joe Lieberman has released a statement on the flotilla incident:

Quote:
We should be very clear about who is responsible for the unfortunate loss of life in the attempt to break the blockade in Gaza. Hamas and its allies are the responsible parties for the recent violence and the continued difficulties for the people of Gaza. Israel exercised her legitimate right of self defense.

The blockade exists because Hamas, which is increasingly acting as a proxy for the Iranian regime, has fired thousands of rockets upon Israel even after Israel withdrew from Gaza. The flotilla was a clear provocation and was not an effort to improve the lives of the people of Gaza but rather an attempt to score political propaganda points. The Palestinian people have legitimate rights to a state that is a peaceful neighbor of Israel, but those who assist Hamas only undermine that goal and a peaceful resolution. Support of Hamas and its aims is not the humanitarian path to peace, but rather enables continued violence and conflict.

I appreciate the way in which the Obama Administration has refused to join the international herd that has rushed to convict Israel before the facts were known and has apparently forgotten that Israel is a democratic nation and Hamas is a terrorist group. At difficult moments like this, it is more important than ever for the U.S. to stand steadfastly with our democratic ally, Israel.


This is bound to improve his standing with the Left.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 10:51 am
http://www.aolnews.com/opinion/article/opinion-israels-actions-against-flotilla-were-a-fiasco-but-it-has-a-right-to-protect-itself/19500990

Quote:
On Tuesday, I posted a short piece over at the American Enterprise Institute's blog asking what we would do if a flotilla made its way toward Guantanamo to deliver aid and comfort to the victims of American aggression, illegal detention or some such. And if that flotilla ignored warnings to turn away and refused to allow U.S. security to board peacefully to examine the contents. And if, once boarded, those on the boats attacked our servicemen. It hasn't happened -- yet. But why not?

After all, the flotilla wasn't really about the Palestinians. If it were, then why not float a shipment to the refugee camps in Lebanon? And it's not really about rights. If it were, then why not protest Hamas' treatment of girls in U.N. Relief and Works Agency camps? The spokeswoman for the flotilla made clear that the mission was more about Israel than it was about actually helping anyone; indeed, the flotilla refused to dock for inspection and transportation of goods to Gaza (maybe they were worried someone would think bulletproof vests and night-vision goggles were not educational). It's not even about getting food and medicine to the Palestinians, something Israel facilitates already.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 11:10 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
On Tuesday, I posted a short piece over at the American Enterprise Institute's blog asking what we would do if a flotilla made its way toward Guantanamo to deliver aid and comfort to the victims of American aggression, illegal detention or some such.


That would be a grand gesture, and even better, it would highlight that the USA illegally occupies that portion of Cuba that is Guantanamo.

All these years and not even close to any convictions. Oh, sorry, I forgot, wasn't there a conviction for a guy who was a chauffeur for Osama, when the CIA chauffeur was busy. Great job guys! That oughta put those terrorist in their place.

Illegal detention for sure.

Now that you've brought up Cuba, lets talk about the numerous terrorist actions committed by the US government against Cuba over the last 40 or so years.

Do you consider it a terrorist action, Finn, to smuggle explosives in to a country? Do you consider it a terrorist action to plant and explode those bombs? How about you, MM, do you believe these are terrorist actions? What about introducing dengue fever or swine flu?

Do you think that these types of terrorist actions continued in such an unrelenting fashion against a tiny defenceless country make other terrorists look like the the Little Rascals?

0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 12:04 pm

Amos Oz wrote an interesting piece, published yesterday.

"Hamas is not just a terror organisation. Hamas is an idea. A desperate and fanatical idea that grew out of the desolation and frustration of many Palestinians. No idea has ever been defeated by force " not by siege, not by bombardment, not by being flattened with tank treads, and not by marine commandos. To defeat an idea you have to offer a better idea, a more attractive and acceptable one. The only way for Israel to edge out Hamas is for it to quickly reach an agreement with the Palestinians on the establishment of an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as defined by the 1967 borders, with its capital in East Jerusalem."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/02/israel-force-impotent-hamas-idea

Sounds right to me.
 

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