51
   

May I see your papers, citizen?

 
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 10:52 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Mexico has a rich history, and it's a real thicket, with a lot of intermixing and non intermixing. I'm the last one to talk on this, but I know enough to know what I don't know. All that is not irrelevant to us, it is part of us. A border is just a bunch of dots.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:00 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
Per David -
We owe nothing to the Mexican race.
(Are thay a race ?)

This is a bellow of ignorance, David.
Maybe about 40 years ago, I arrived in the NY State Supreme Court for litigation
of a personal injury case wherein one Bellow was the Plaintiff.

I raised my voice to call out to find adverse counsel on the case:
" BELLOW ?! BELLOOOW ?! BELLOOOOW ?! "
The court clerk asked me what I was doing. I said: "I 'm BELLOWING" (true story)





David
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:01 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
You talking about Saul?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:04 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
You talking about Saul?
Its been a while, but I think it was a different Bellow.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:07 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

Mexico has a rich history, and it's a real thicket, with a lot of intermixing and non intermixing. I'm the last one to talk on this, but I know enough to know what I don't know. All that is not irrelevant to us, it is part of us.


A border is just a bunch of dots.
That is a vu from which I DISSENT.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:15 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
Pom, that's wild talk, even if some fit your description.
Some people in the lower half of the academic pile do well in actual life.
I could add, some in the upper don't do so well.
That 's ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, and keenly insightful.

ossobuco wrote:
You tend to be like David, your present nemesis,
in that you value some creds or numbers so highly.

Maybe some people don't want to go to law school. I never did.
I hope that u r not suggesting that I have implied
that everyone shud go to law school !?

People shud go where their wishes and their talents lead them.





David





ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:29 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I can't deal with your 'shuds' tonight.

(good evening)
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:29 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:
Let's just issue a national ID card while we're at it, right?


Why not? I find the typical American objection to a national ID card, as opposed to the many different state versions, to be largely irrational.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:33 pm
@Robert Gentel,
agreed
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:37 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I'm not sure what I think about it, still mulling. But, my immediate reaction is a kind of totalitarian (word instead of nazi or socialist(!) super watch.

On the other hand, is it like my passport?

I'm listening while wary.

Tell me what good it would do.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:41 pm
@ossobuco,
Alternately, I have to carry my new mexico id. But, wait, what does that prove?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:48 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
I can't deal with your 'shuds' tonight.

(good evening)
Have a nice evening.





David
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Sat 24 Apr, 2010 11:53 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
I'm not sure what I think about it, still mulling. But, my immediate reaction is a kind of totalitarian (word instead of nazi or socialist(!) super watch.


Like in the UK? Or just about anywhere else? Seriously, Americans are weird about this. You already have to carry ID to function in America, and what difference does it make if it's a national one or a state one? Some people argue against a national "database" of citizens but we already have a national identity through social security numbers and it's not like it enables anything that can't already be done to you.

Quote:
On the other hand, is it like my passport?


In most countries, it's just exactly like like the status quo, except that it is not different from state to state. That is all.

Of course, in some countries it also involves fingerprinting and other real differences in privacy but just consolidating identity nationally is not fundamentally different in any way other than the consolidation.

Quote:
I'm listening while wary.


Why wary? Most Americans seem to be wary of it, but I've met very few who even know why they are wary of it.

Quote:
Tell me what good it would do.


Most people I know have had to apply for new IDs and drivers licenses when they move within America. That is just wasteful bureaucracy, imagine how many hours are lost every year just to get your new ID with a different state name and flag on it. And imagine how much overhead maintaining 50 different systems is instead of one. There's economy of scale for just one.

You know, this would be a lot easier if someone would point out a single reason why it's NOT a good idea. What benefit do you see in each state issuing separate ID cards and drivers licenses? Why should your identity stop at the state border?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 12:13 am
@Robert Gentel,


Quoting -
Of course, in some countries it also involves fingerprinting and other real differences in privacy but just consolidating identity nationally is not fundamentally different in any way other than the consolidation. end/quote

Ok, I give up, you make sense. I suppose I rail against having to carry some i.d. in the first place, when many people have for decades, and I've been lucky as a white woman. I used to jog for miles. I suppose I carried my license, a couple of dollars, and my key. But I'm sure I've also walked for miles with no ID.

It's the whole identify yourself thing that is weird and seems generally inappropriate.

It seems to me there must be strictures or none of us can ever disrobe.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 01:19 am
@ossobuco,
Quote:
It's the whole identify yourself thing that is weird and seems generally inappropriate.

In that case let's hope that you are not one of the people who gets upset at those who come around a2k purposefully trying to cloud their identity by taking multiple names. I'll put you down as one vote for wanting to make every post anonymous ....
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 01:22 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I'll put you down as one vote for wanting to make every post anonymous ....


Some of us come from places where this is exactly the case, and have built up habits over time to compensate for this.

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 02:23 am
@Cycloptichorn,
My point however was how interwoven identity is to human interaction and social function. Those who object to the collective demanding identity from individuals best keep this in mind.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 02:33 am
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
I suppose I carried my license, a couple of dollars, and my key. But I'm sure I've also walked for miles with no ID.

It's the whole identify yourself thing that is weird and seems generally inappropriate.

It seems to me there must be strictures or none of us can ever disrobe.



We've an ID-card in Germany since the Nazi time, but equivalent documents already earlier ... since medieval times. (I own some from the 18th and 19th century.)

The reason is quite simple: there are a couple of acts of legal significance where the other wants to know, if you are really the own you pretend to be and if you really live where you say you do.

And do to the invention of photography and modern computerised technology the ID-card is nowadays the equivalent of a passport (actually since the 50's of century in most European countries).

We don't need to carry it always with us (only, if carrying a weapon, for instance), but anyone above 18 must have one.

The information in it is less than on an US security card or driving licence.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 02:54 am
In Sweden we use our driver´s licence as a ID card.
My Swedish passport is not valued as ID within Sweden.
When traveling outside of Sweden also within EU I have to use my passport - as far as know my driver´s licence is not valued.
The passport I don´t need to leave Sweden, but in case of police or customs checking on passengers I have to prove I am Swedish when entering Sweden again.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Apr, 2010 03:30 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

dlowan wrote:
I think that is an artifact of some glitch between the computer screen and the seat of your computer chair.

That's actually a well-known error in the IT world: EBKAC.


I know.
0 Replies
 
 

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