May I see your papers, citizen?

@ebrown p,

Weren't AZ and NH the last states to recognize the MLK holiday?

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDavid, and Rockhead:

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. As I said already, stopping illegal immigration is of the same urgency to me as stopping illegal voting by women or illegal sitting in the wrong part of a segregated bus.

If employers hire immigrants without asking for their work permissions, that's between them and the law. As far as I am concerned, more power to them!

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@Thomas,

feel free to disagree, but please don't lump dave and I together.

he believes it is the evil aliens at fault, while I find the evil greedy Americans the cause.

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I think it is time to note that the more things change, the more they remain the same. From Wiki: The Know Nothing movement was a nativist American political movement of the 1840s and 1850s. It was empowered by popular fears that the country was being overwhelmed by German and Irish Catholic immigrants, who were often regarded as hostile to Anglo-Saxon values and controlled by the Pope in Rome. Mainly active from 1854 to 1856, it strove to curb immigration and naturalization, though its efforts met with little success. Membership was limited to Protestant males of British lineage over the age of twenty-one. There were few prominent leaders, and the largely middle-class and entirely Protestant membership fragmented over the issue of slavery. Most ended up joining the Republican Party by the time of the 1860 presidential election.[1][2]
The movement originated in New York in 1843 as the American Republican Party. It spread to other states as the Native American Party and became a national party in 1845. In 1855 it renamed itself the American Party.[3] The origin of the "Know Nothing" term was in the semi-secret organization of the party. When a member was asked about its activities, he was supposed to reply, "I know nothing."[4]

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@plainoldme,

A century ago, it was German Protestants and Irish Catholics, now, it is Mexicans. Hey, if the Mexicans are stopped, who will mow your lawns and flip your burgers?

The American right always finds someone to hate, someone to target.

The irony is that humans are always on the move. Shortly after modern humans appeared in Africa, they left! Walked along the coasts of Asia Minor, across what would become the Silk Road and down into India and from there to Australia while others went in the opposite direction, eventually populating the world with humans.

Of course, the ancestors of Rockhead, Finn and David had to have come from somewhere. Could they have been immigrants?

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@Thomas,

I am on your side, thomas.

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@plainoldme,

funny you should say that, POM.

some of my relatives consider the Americans illegal aliens. (albeit very powerful ones)

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@Rockhead,

I definitely agree with you here.

I think the fastest way to getting those "illegals" legal, is by prosecuting their employers. Those good old boys will use their political interest to get things changed right quick.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

When you've been brought up on the idea that the Federal government can provide no benefits, only taxation and intrusions into your life, the idea of a 'national ID card' is terrifying.

Implying that it is a conservative issue is misleading, national ID is more strongly opposed from the left in America than the right.

This particular silliness isn't something you can blame the other side for.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

There is no "human right" to live in America and benefit from its social programs.

As with all rights, each of them is in the eye of the beholder. There is no inherent human right and all are negotiated social contracts.

And I, for one, advocate a human right of unrestricted (insofar as when nationality is the sole criteria) travel across lines in the sand. So while there currently is not a recognized human right to "live in America" I advocate a human right to live wherever on this earth you see fit.

I don't think the United States should open up its borders unilaterally but I'd like to see global treaties for open borders one day. The pursuit of happiness shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted by lines in the sand.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

Quote:

The irony is that humans are always on the move. Shortly after modern humans appeared in Africa, they left! Walked along the coasts of Asia Minor, across what would become the Silk Road and down into India and from there to Australia while others went in the opposite direction, eventually populating the world with humans.

If nations are to mean anything they must retain control over their domain. You extreme leftists should consider that many in the corporate class also aim to depower national governments, so as to make the individuals more easy to take advantage of.

There is no excuse for governments failing to protect their borders from intrusion. It is not only dangerous to the health of the nation and the citizens of that nation, it is a road to certain ruin. Those who promote these misguided free movement ideas have lost their minds. Hopefully sanity will prevail.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Quote:

And I, for one, advocate a human right of unrestricted (insofar as when nationality is the sole criteria) travel across lines in the sand. So while there currently is not a recognized human right to "live in America" I advocate a human right to live wherever on this earth you see fit.

when and if we develop a global government which has enforcement power we could talk about that.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

when and if we develop a global government which has enforcement power we could talk about that.

I'd love to see global government as well, but that isn't in the cards within my lifetime. However, there are already many examples of open-border treaties where citizens of the respective countries enjoy freedom of movement within the covered territories and there is no need to appeal to that extreme for the ideal I espouse.

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@Robert Gentel,

Quote:

I'd love to see global government as well, but that isn't in the cards within my lifetime

I am with you on that, but until then we are running this planet on the nation/state system. We must keep operating that system of governance until we have a replacement.

Individuals have a right to a functional organization system, and to security, so one can't roll out the individuals right to self determination and automatically win the day.

We do have some simpletons around here who don't know any better but to say that people should be allowed to do what ever they want to do. I expect that you do know better, your sensible position indicates that you do.

Edit: we expect something like a 90% chance of terrorist used nuclear detonation in the next ten years...that should shut these blabbering idiots up.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Individuals have a right to a functional organization system, and to security, so one can't roll out the individuals right to self determination and automatically win the day.

This is why open borders should be negotiated as treaties by these self-determined citizens just like free-trade agreements (or just like existing open-border treaties that I have already pointed out exist).

I don't advocate that the United States open their borders to nations that do not reciprocate but I'd like to see a push for open-border treaties on the same scale that the United States has managed to get for free-trade treaties.

1 Reply

@Robert Gentel,

Quote:

This is why open borders should be negotiated as treaties by these self-determined citizens just like free-trade agreements (or just like existing open-border treaties that I have already pointed out exist).

The EU free movement scheme for instance makes perfect sense.

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One really GOOD reason against open borders
is that ALIENS shud have NO SAY in the ideology that we apply in running our country.

Thay shud have no opportunity to infect our free enterprize system
with socialist poison to rip us off, for their parasitical reasons.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

Commie Aliens sapping your precious bodily fluids.... ummm.

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@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

he believes it is the evil aliens at fault, while I find the evil greedy Americans the cause.

The Americans are merely employing Mexicans on terms that the Mexicans have agreed to work on. On terms, indeed, that they have risked their lives to cross the border to work on. Terms they like enough to prefer working under them over moving back to Mexico. How does that make their American employers evil and greedy? You may not like the deal the two sides have worked out with each other. But then again, neither side has any obligation to please you.

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@Robert Gentel,

One more thing to put on the "Oddest Things Supported by the Right Wing in America" list: The National Identification Card.
The same people who recoil and protest any perceived intrusion of the Federal Government into their lives are the same people who want us all to march down to the nearest governmental agency and sign in to receive our imprimatur and the appropriately designed card to carry.

Joe(there will be eagles on it, I'm sure.)Nation

1 Reply

May I see your papers, citizen?

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