May I see your papers, citizen?

@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Here is the ACLU analysis (who will certainly be part of the lawsuits that are already being drawn up).

http://acluaz.org/ACLU-AZ%20Section%20By%20Section%20Analysis%20of%20SB1070updated%204-14-10.pdf

That's a very persuasive read. Thanks!

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Incidently there is plenty of evidence that people behind this bill don't like brown skinned people in general.

The last controversy in Arizona was the Martin Luther King holiday. They lost a Superbowl over it (leading some people to wonder if the All Star game in the baseball major leagues with lots of key Hispanic players may come into play).

This bill was passed on a party line vote... it was passed by the Republicans only. It is opposed by US citizens both inside and outside of Arizona from the Police Chiefs organization in Arizona to the White House.

Russell Pearce, the Republican state legislator who was the driving force behind this bill, was caught sending email from a white supremecist site. He defends the 1950's "Operation Wetback" a harsh program of mass deportation which rounded up and deported anyone who looked Mexican including US citizens with brown skin.

Then there are his questionable buddies...

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2007/09/russell_pearces_willie_horton.php

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The answer can't be: "Just buck it up you racists!" or "Just open the borders to anyone and everyone who wants to come in."

Why not? Basically that's the way US immigration has worked from 1776 to ca. 1920. The sky did not fall during this century and a half.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

There is certainly no reason why Americans should tolerate criminals who enter our country illegally to prey on us, and certainly not because to do otherwise is to suggest we hate people with brown skin.

On that point, I actually agree. The US does not have to tolerate people who come here with the intent to commit crimes (in addition to the crime of crossing the border without permission). I have no problem sending them back.

0 Replies

@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

We are all against rapists and murderers and muggers. Being an immigrants whose only crime is to lack permission to be here is not the same thing at all.

I don't think Finn was talking about this latter class of people.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

Quote:

ebrown p wrote:

We are all against rapists and murderers and muggers. Being an immigrants whose only crime is to lack permission to be here is not the same thing at all.

I don't think Finn was talking about this latter class of people.

Let's ask him...

Finn, do you see the difference between violent criminals and undocumented immigrants?

1 Reply

@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

Quote:
ebrown p wrote:

We are all against rapists and murderers and muggers.
Being an immigrants whose only crime is to lack permission to be here is not the same thing at all.

I don't think Finn was talking about this latter class of people.

Let's ask him...

Finn, do you see the difference between violent criminals and undocumented immigrants?

Mr. Brown, your question almost seems
to tacitly imply that one cannot be both.

Let 's not lose sight of the fact that violent alien criminals
will be NO PROBLEM, so long as thay remain SOUTH of the border.

Too many Americans have been butchered by sneaky illegal aliens.

David

1 Reply

@ebrown p,

TELL ME, Mr. Brown:

How do YOU propose that we stop and defeat the illegal aliens, instead of SB1070 ??

David

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Mr. Brown, your question almost seems
to tacitly imply that one cannot be both.

Let 's not lose sight of the fact that violent alien criminals
will be NO PROBLEM, so long as thay remain SOUTH of the border.

Too many Americans have been butchered by sneaky illegal aliens.

One can also be BOTH a violent criminal and a gun owner-- I suspect that you would object if I suggested that all gun owners are violent criminals.

Too many Americans have been butchered by sneaky illegal gun owners.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

TELL ME, Mr. Brown:

How do YOU propose that we stop and defeat the illegal aliens, instead of SB1070 ??

I'm not Mr. Brown, but when did that ever stop me from anwering your questions? I propose that we stop and defeat illegal aliens the same way we stopped and defeated illegal citizens harboring fugitive slaves, illegal women voting, and illegal blacks sitting in the wrong part of the bus:

Legalize them.

2 Replies

@ebrown p,

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

How do YOU propose that we stop and defeat the illegal aliens, instead of SB1070?

1. Make it easier for employers to check the status of their employees.
2. Punish employers for hiring people who are not legally eligible to be employed in the U.S.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

TELL ME, Mr. Brown:

How do YOU propose that we stop and defeat the illegal aliens, instead of SB1070 ??

I'm not Mr. Brown, but when did that ever stop me from anwering your questions? I propose that we stop and defeat illegal aliens the same way we stopped and defeated illegal citizens harboring fugitive slaves, illegal women voting, and illegal blacks sitting in the wrong part of the bus:

Legalize them.

Now you are talking my kind of talk.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

Now you are talking my kind of talk

the talk of fools...the nation that can not control its borders can not control its destiny. Your kind has been spoiled by a too easy a life, you don't comprehend the dog eat dog world that most people always have and always will live in. If you want to give away all that you have personally to the poor be my guest, but some of us are trying to build something. We not going to give away our national treasure to anyone who wants to come and collect it. The rewards must go to those who did the work, not to any poor schmuck looking for a fast payday who can afford a plane ticket.

As I recall Thomas is not a citizen, so ya, I'm sure he likes being able to collect what he can get....always with the option to go home after whatever wealth he is mining runs out. The rest of us are stuck here no matter how things turn out.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

How do YOU propose that we stop and defeat the illegal aliens, instead of SB1070?

DrewDad wrote:

1. Make it easier for employers to check the status of their employees.
2. Punish employers for hiring people who are not legally eligible to be employed in the U.S.

BOTH very fine ideas, there; how do u propose to do the first one ?

David

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Just say your say without the name calling.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

Just say your say without the name calling.

No, my view is the majority view. Our government is not free to refuse to stand up against those who wish to take what is ours. Governments get replaced for that kind of dereliction of duty.

0 Replies

@Thomas,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

TELL ME, Mr. Brown:

How do YOU propose that we stop and defeat the illegal aliens, instead of SB1070 ??

Thomas wrote:

I'm not Mr. Brown, but when did that ever stop me from anwering your questions?

Your comments are always more than welcome, Thomas. Tho we ofen disagree, u have my respect.

Thomas wrote:

I propose that we stop and defeat illegal aliens the same way we stopped and defeated illegal citizens
harboring fugitive slaves, illegal women voting, and illegal blacks sitting in the wrong part of the bus:

Legalize them.

I don 't think that favorably REWARDING
criminals for violating our laws is a very good idea.

We need to defend our borders from an invasion
and those invasive criminals shoud be treated severely
(exceptions for children, who r brought along).

We need to penalize them with treatment that is sufficiently dissuasive
to keep them from sneaking back in after we deport them.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDavid wrote:

We need to defend our borders from an invasion
and those invasive criminals shoud be treated severely

If by "invasive criminals" you mean gangsters, drug dealers, pimps, and the like -- fine. But if you also include everyone whose sole crime was to cross the border illegally, you're quite wrong to talk about an invasion. These are trustworthy, hard-working human beings. America's own conduct proves this: why else would she be paying them to harvest her fields, mow her lawns, and raise her babies? I find it grotesque to treat them like an army of barbarians, invading us against our will.

2 Replies

@Thomas,

Thay are criminals; before thay jump the fence,
thay KNOW that thay are perpetrating a criminal act.

We need to DEFEND our borders.

Penalties shoud be sufficiently dissuasive to succeed in convincing them not to sneak back in
after we deport them; to them, deportation is an ineffective joke.

David

1 Reply

@Thomas,

anyone caught knowingly employing an illegal should lose their citizenship.

the problem would stop immediately.

0 Replies

May I see your papers, citizen?

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