45
   

Is smoking good for you?

 
 
spendius
 
  2  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 02:26 am
@ebrown p,
Quote:
Your numbers are similar to the ones I am using--- about 219,000 new cases of lung cancer each year, and about 159,000 deaths.


There's not far short of 3 million deaths in the US every year which leaves you with about 2.7 million deaths to account for after you have got over the ones you have homed in on.

There's some evidence that ability to work is improved by smoking. But "abilty to work" is an exceedingly loose term. You need to define work for a start.

The whole subject is fraught with difficulty. What about other causes of illness and death?

The problem of paying for an aging population is possibly the biggest problem the western world faces. The post war birth bulge is now in its early sixties. What is life living up to 80 going to be like for millions of people when it might look unaffordable to the young?

0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 08:09 am
BDV and Spendius, a simple question.

Is keeping kids from starting to smoke a worthy goal?
BDV
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 08:47 am
@ebrown p,
Naturally as it will saved a fortune in money, the habit is no longer cheap and inexpensive, but as in all cases they have their own minds and will make the decision for themselves, my two daughters smoke, both against my will, peer pressure is stronger than parent pressure. Do they care that smoking will shorten their lives? well the answer is no, teenagers and kids in their early twenties are immortal.

Keeping kids from extremism, hard drugs and alcoholism is a more worthy cause, but once again the choice will always be there. I tell them "Smoking may not kill you, but not smoking will improve your quality of life, and give you more money to spend on other stuff like crack and cocaine" (Only joking)
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 09:50 am
@ebrown p,
Quote:
Is keeping kids from starting to smoke a worthy goal?


I wouldn't know. I don't stereotype kids and think of them as an item in an aggregate. I daresay more kids smoke than would otherwise be the case if everybody shut up about the subject. Make it naughty and something disapproved of old reformed fogies and kids will dare it down. Make it just another part of life, as it was for a very long time, and the price will determine the take up of tobacco. Which you have a choice over.

So I think you anti-smoking preachers are causing more kids to smoke. I think the chastity movement derives its energy from not being the same as you silly sods.

And it depends what is meant by a worthy goal. Suppose you miss out on what J.M. Barrie called My Lady Nicotine and get killed in Afghanistan at 28.

Quote:
General John J. Pershing, Commander of US forces in France, called tobacco "as indispensable as the daily ration; we must have thousands of tons of it without delay." How Pershing was brought to this conclusion would be an interesting study. Had the Company specifically "lobbied" him? How? In any case, by the end of 1917 the Company was shipping tons of Bull Durham tobacco to the American troops. Just as anything German became, almost overnight, a symbol of what was despised in America, so tobacco and cigarettes, especially, became a powerful symbol of American patriotism.
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 09:53 am
Quote:
I think the chastity movement derives its energy from not being the same as you silly sods.


The kids probably look at the mess you lot have created with your permissive society and take serious note.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 09:54 am
@ebrown p,
Quote:
Is keeping kids from starting to smoke a worthy goal?
Kids should have a lot more rights than they do currently, they should be able to smoke at 14yo. Keeping new people from smoking is not a worthy goal. If smoking is evil then outlaw the damn things, if they are legal then let people decide for themselves. Making people choose what you want them to choose in not only not a worthy endeavor, it is a despicable act.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 10:00 am
@spendius,
Quote:
The kids probably look at the mess you lot have created with your permissive society and take serious note.
I think kids learn by the age of 12 that adults tend to say one thing and then do something else. Then there is the whole matter of a dieing planet and how we will almost certainly see nuclear weapons in use sometime during the next decade and so smoking cutting a few years off of life POTENTIALLY does not amount to much in the context of this fucked up world.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 10:13 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
There is much more to the enjoyment of life than simply longevity.

The problem I have with this argument is that there are so many other behaviors that could be substituted for smoking that also result in the enjoyment of life without the negative health effects.

In fact, considering the negative health effects, smoking would seem more to be enjoyment in dieing.

If that's your idea of a fun time, then go for it, but don't dress up taking a drug as being "psychically beneficial".
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 10:23 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
The problem I have with this argument is that there are so many other behaviors that could be substituted for smoking that also result in the enjoyment of life without the negative health effects.


here is a novel idea: How about you run your life and then let other people run theirs??
DrewDad
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 10:26 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
here is a novel idea: How about you run your life and then let other people run theirs??

If you don't want your faulty logic pointed out to you, perhaps you should find another discussion board.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 10:40 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
If you don't want your faulty logic pointed out to you,
I have never so indicated....so have you taken this diversion because you have run out of relevant things to say?
DrewDad
 
  0  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 10:50 am
@hawkeye10,
<yawn>

Your "insights" are as compelling as always.
0 Replies
 
BDV
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 01:28 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
The problem I have with this argument is that there are so many other behaviors that could be substituted for smoking that also result in the enjoyment of life without the negative health effects.


Do you think for one second that the only enjoyment in life we have is "Smoking"? Theres very few things in life that don't have "Negative health effects" so thats a crazy and unbalanced statement. What exactly are you talking about?
0 Replies
 
BDV
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 01:59 pm
Gonna raise a small point here - Deaths associated with Tobacco in the USA is 435,000ish, this being the amount of people who died and smoked (Including passive smoking!!!). Considering this accounts for 18.1% of deaths and 20% of people smoke, then this actually shows a positive ratio, smoking will reduce your chance of kicking the bucket annually by 1.9%.

These are facts
parados
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 02:17 pm
@BDV,
All you are showing is your inability to understand statistics BDV.

You are assuming that smokers ONLY die from smoking.
So, no smokers have accidents?
no smokers die from disease NOT associated with smoking?
no smokers die from other causes?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 02:26 pm
@BDV,
Quote:
Gonna raise a small point here - Deaths associated with Tobacco in the USA is 435,000ish, this being the amount of people who died and smoked (Including passive smoking!!!).
and a huge percentage of death certificates list the cause of death as heart failure, but only cause you have to officially die of something, even if you really died of old age.

This number does not impress me. I care about years lost to smoking, and since nobody can make up their minds what that number is I am not inclined to figure it is a major problem. The primary neg effect of smoking is lung cancer, and the vast majority who die of lung cancer reach a pretty ripe old age. Where exactly is the horrible health effects of smoking that makes us want to make sure that no one smokes, only not badly enough to have the balls to make it illegal? I am going to die, I am going to die of something, I don't care if it is decided that smoking caused it or because something else. I only care about how long I lived and how much I enjoyed and accomplished during my time here.
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 02:44 pm
@hawkeye10,
Come on Hawk, be real. Have you even been around someone with lung cancer? Its not pretty. Great, so you live to be 85, but you spend the last 5 dragging around an oxygen tank because you can't breathe and then suffocate to death in a hospital bed when your lungs decide to stop working. Now that's quality of life. You're right about one thing though. Who cares about quantity...If I can live 70 years in good health I'd rather have that than 85 years with 10 of them miserable.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 02:47 pm
@hawkeye10,
That's a great idea. Which is why smoking should be banned in public places.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 03:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I care about years lost to smoking, and since nobody can make up their minds what that number is I am not inclined to figure it is a major problem.

The number is on average 10.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Wed 21 Apr, 2010 03:14 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I daresay more kids smoke than would otherwise be the case if everybody shut up about the subject. Make it naughty and something disapproved of old reformed fogies and kids will dare it down. Make it just another part of life, as it was for a very long time, and the price will determine the take up of tobacco. Which you have a choice over.


Again, you would be wrong.

The effects that anti-smoking efforts have on teen smoking are scientifically measured, and they are dramatically effective. It is pretty simple really, you start an anti-smoking campaign. You measure the teen smoking rates before and after the campaign. You can get more information by interviewing teenagers before and after.

The fact is that anti-smoking campaigns have been quite successful at decreasing the teen smoking rate. Not surprisingly, the lung cancer and heart disease rates (which lag smoking rates by 20 years or so) have also dropped as expected.

Not only are the advertisements effective, raising the price of cigarettes through taxes is also proven to be very effective (not by guessing-- but by people going out and doing the research).
0 Replies
 
 

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