IAM A CHEATER

Maybe it'd be better if I didn't go there. My apologies.

Well, maybe so! You can never really know in life. But I wouldn't later on be happy that I didn't know, were it to be the case. I would not feel grateful that someone had lied to me to spare my feelings. I don't believe that ignorance would have protected me or made me happier in the end, if for no other reason that sexual matters involve health issues that people have a right to be aware of.

At the end of the day, it's not about the other person, though - it's about yourself and doing what's right, because you've made a habit of trying to do what's right in life. I can envision forgiving people for 'most any transgression - everyone screws up sometimes - but loss of the honesty which is the bedrock of solid relationship isn't something that can be gotten over with mere forgiveness.

Cycloptichorn

You're not a cheater unless you act like a cheater and an integral part of cheating is dishonesty.
If I truly loved and respected my boyfriend, I would tell him.
If I were walking around with this secret with another person, that would feel almost like a bigger betrayal toward my partner than the initial incident.
You're aligning yourself with someone else and belittling your partner's right to be treated with honesty and respect - and this time there's no excuse - you're not drunk anymore.
He has a right to know what's really happening in his own relationship and life.

If it was a mistake and no big deal then to say, 'I have to tell you something..remember that party when we were fighting , etc., etc...well, I got drunk and blah, blah, blah'- makes it seem much less of a big deal than if you're harboring and maybe even relishing this secret tryst for weeks and months, and possibly years.

He has the right to either accept or reject what's happened.

If someone did this and told me, I'd be much more likely to forget about it than if someone did this and didn't tell me and allowed me to look like a fool in front of my friends, by saving their own skin and creating a situation where I was laboring under the impression that my life and relationship were different than I believed them to be- that's the real betrayal.

And if by chance I did find out, I would never believe another word that person said to me whereas if someone did this and told me - I'd be inclined to believe most of what they had to say to me because they'd had enough respect for me not to lie - even when it was inconvenient for them to tell the truth.

You're only a cheater if you lie - what you did is somewhat understandable - lying about it is disrespectful, dishonest and belittling of this person you supposedly love. That's the part I'd find hard to forgive and forget.

Isn't that kind of like saying you aren't a murderer unless you lied about murdering somebody?

The dead is done regardless of whether or not she tells anyone she did it. If she does it again; that's a bigger problem.

What about the fact that "this guy" isn't keeping his mouth totally shut (he did the "wink" thing) and he is friends with her boyfriend? Sooner or later the guy is gonna blab. I would much rather get the truth out in the open and deal with it then to wonder if he's going to say something again. Talk about a powder keg!

I'd much rather deal with that situation when/if it ever comes up.

Really? You'd rather be revealed not only as someone who made a mistake, but who then systematically lied about it for months if not years in order to avoid the repercussions of that mistake? That's the definition of cowardice, dude.

That's far more damning then the original mistake. She could admit, say 'look, we were on the rocks, I fucked up, I felt guilty about it so I broke it off with you rather then tell you, now that we're back together you gotta know.' What's the worse that can happen? That they break up?

The longer you let it lie the worse it will get.

Lemme put it in terms you can understand - previous generations ALL dealt with our country's debt and spending problems by saying 'we will deal with the unsustainable situation when it hits a head, and not before.' You have lately been railing about this irresponsible putting off of necessary actions, yet here you seem to be advocating it.

Cycloptichorn

This is a definition of cheating I found with which I agree and concur:

As of this moment she can say, if she begins to tell the truth - 'I cheated'.
If she doesn't tell the truth, she should indeed say, 'I am a cheater' because she lied or behaved dishonestly toward her boyfriend in order to achieve something, and she continues to do so.

And no, I don't see it as being the same thing in terms of murder because if you've murdered someone, you're a murderer because that in and of itself is the extent of the action.

You know - I don't know...this is a situation in which I'd have to apply the 'do unto others as you'd have them do unto you' concept of morality.

If my partner cheated - I'd want to know. I wouldn't want him to make the decision about what I got to find out about my own life based on some misguided attempt he was making to keep from hurting me- because actually it would end up hurting me more, and secondly, I'd feel like he thought I was some sort of moron who couldn't handle the truth and that he thought he was superior to me in that he got to decide what I could and couldn't handle.

I just believe people who love each other should have enough respect to at least be honest with each other - even if they do make mistakes.

Cyclo
Why do you have such an issue with other people saying they would not choose to react of or respond to a situation the same way you would?

Comments like "It's difficult for me to understand...."
"This opinion does not reflect well on you..."
"Really, so you'd rather...."

Well, if it's difficult for you to understand, that's something you to work on, not the person for whom it is very clear what they would do.

Having an opinion that does not agree with another persons, and the other saying it doesn't reflect well on them, shows an intolerance for how others choose to live lives. It also indicates that somewho it's a persons responsibility to somehow stay in the good graces of the person frowning down their nose at them.
I think I can speak for both marop and myself when I say neither one of gives a fig for how you feel this reflects on us. Just like with your off the cuff statement of "I'm glad I'm not in a relationship with you"
Yeah? So what? Like that means something?
Or the, what was it? Oh yeah, the really from outer space comment that this is "hitting to close to home" for me.

Wow, that almost made me break down and tell you about all the affairs I've had over the years.
You've got me. My husband thinks it takes me 20 minutes to get home from work, but guess what, it only takes me 15.
I'm a regular nympho in that stolen time.
Hey, do you really think I'm at the grocery store Every Saturday? I cleverly keep extra groceries in my car, so it'll look like I've been to the store, when I'm really a girl gone wild.

I don't think anyone here has indicated for a second you shouldn't handle a problem like this the way you would want to handle it, Cyclo.

All you need to be concerned about is your actions, not anyone elses.

hello there was seeking advice, and she got various opinions. She however, has to be the one to make her own decisions.

It's one thing to say what you would do, and advice them to think about their options. It's another to give these dire warnings of "You never get over this. You'll internalize this and you life will forever be for ****"

Thinking about it I've had 3 people in my life that were always telling me of all the awful things that would happen if I (fill in the blank)
They would say things like "just what until....." or "you'll never....." or "you'll be sorry when....."

You know what? Not one of the horrible things predicted ever happened. Oh, other things did, but things that had nothing to do with the life that was envisioned for me.

Honestly? I wasted a couple decades of my life waiting for this other shoe to drop. It never did....There was no shoe. The **** that did happen was dealt with, lessons learned, and the only regrets I really have were the occassions I felt like I had to drag someone else into it.

When I realized how much time I'd wasted waiting for some boogie monster to eat my soul, the one I was warned about all my life, I laughed. I realized the boogie monster was just those people who had nothing better to do than try to run my life, and it just pissed them off to no end that I would have no part of it.

let hello there decided for herself. She's been given the options, she has the tools, let her use them the way she wants.

If she tells the BF, I say good for you. If she doesn't, I'll say the same.

If it didn't mean anything, you wouldn't bother responding like this. The fact that you did means that it did mean something. I understand that you are trying to project a certain persona here and I'm cool with that. But I have to let you know that your actions do not match those of someone who truly doesn't care about what someone else says - at all.

Next time you tell someone you don't give a **** what their opinion is, you would be well-advised to show some self control and prove it to them by not responding. As things stand you are sending the opposite message.

Your opinions are based on how YOU feel - on what you want, what you have to deal with, what you are afraid of. They don't seem to be based on a sense of respect for what others deserve to know. Having an affair or cheating on someone is something that the other person DESERVES to know, no matter what your opinion of is it. Hiding things from people because it makes the situation easier to deal with then telling the truth is basically disrespecting that person; even if they never find out, you're still guilty of lowering that person in your mind. They are someone you can't be honest with.



Yes, I have intolerance for those who don't give a **** about other people, Chai. I am not sorry for this. And why should I be? Your advice - to hide major transgressions from those you are supposed to love the most - is disgusting and frankly it does reflect poorly upon you as a person. I'm sure you would have difficulty explaining to your loved ones in real life that you think it's perfectly okay to commit major transgressions and then hide them and lie about them.



So, it seems like you DID internalize your guilt over the bad things you did - for decades. This is in contradiction to your claims that this doesn't happen. I agree with Maporsche - I still feel bad about stuff I did wrong in elementary school, let alone as an adult. It's that damn sense of morality that makes my life more difficult then others, I suppose.

That notwithstanding, surely you are aware that when you drunkenly **** some other guy you have ALREADY dragged your partner into it, if for no other reasons then health reasons. It is ludicrous to pretend otherwise and I have a hard time believing that any moral person would agree with you.

I will never apologize for the fact that I disapprove of duplicity and cowardice, Chai. And I disapprove of those who offer cowardice as advice to youngsters.

Cycloptichorn

I wouldn't, assuming that it was a mistake and only occured one time.

What about the potential health issues involved? You just don't care much about that aspect of it?

Cycloptichorn

If I did Cyclops, I would have made far better decisions and slept with far fewer people before I met my wife.

If I happened to contract something (what are the odds, 0.001%), then the cat would be out of the bag. And we'd have to deal with it. With those odds, I'd prefer to be blissfully ignorant to my GF/wife's singular transgression. Please note that I'm saying singular. If it's multiple times, it becomes a larger issue.

hello you said:

Well, this is how the opening poster said keeping her secret is making her feel, which is probably manifesting in her day to day life and behavior. You might want to convince yourself that you could continue to remain 'blissfully ignorant' that a transgression had occurred and/or what exactly it might be, but if you're living with a person who's feeling as she's described above the ignorance might be ignorant, but it probably wouldn't be blissful.

Or maybe that's just a woman thing - keying into unspoken tension-I know I'd be worried, wondering what the problem was and probably creating a bigger scenario in my mind and imagination than if the poor guy just came out with it.

I would just appreciate knowing exactly who and what I'm living with - and that's not even taking into account the potential for disease.

And I do think honesty is the best policy.
URL: http://able2know.org/reply/post-3958116

Snort. Keep telling yourself that. There are plenty of people walking around with Herpes or HIV right now because of attitudes like that.

It's always someone else who gets sick, or hurt, right?

Minimizing the health issue is a real roll of the dice, bro, and the stakes are pretty high. And not just for yourself; but for others you love, your wife or kids.

Cycloptichorn

So what do you think the odd are? 20%?

Can't quantify it because it depends on your 'target audience,' so to speak, and your level of personal responsibility at the time. But there are a lot more then 1/100th of the population who have STD's.

Cycloptichorn

This thread is strange to me. Just because someone has a boy friend for two years doesn't make it a given that he somehow owns you. Were vows exchanged to stay together and be faithful forever?

In the first post, Hello You intimates that she was apprehensive, uncomfortable, about what I would call the boy friend's control issues. She was ready to call it quits and all but had when she went to that party, got inebriated, and enjoyed a liaison probably out of some sense of relief and freedom effort... and then she did break up with him. Boyfriend played a big part in the breakup, however much either person was right or wrong.

I don't see the liaison as any of bf's business, had she stayed away from boy friend. Even going back to the boy friend, I think she needs only to see if she has picked up a sexually transmitted disease.

If Mike decides to tell, or she does, boy friend has no cause, to me, to make her feel guilty. She left him, this Mike was part of the process. I also don't readily believe that boy friend has completely changed, seemingly overnight.



I think even in marriage you don't own the other person, mind or heart. Body, that would be a matter of the vows between the partners.

holy **** cyclo.

you are going ******* nuts over this, aren't you?

did I ever say one Never internalizes Anything?

No I didn't

How did I de-internalize this? Not by going to therapy or "sitting down and explaining it to all the parties involved", or dragging this feeling on and on and on.


I woke up one day, realized boy, that's really stupid chai, had a laugh, and went on with my life.
That was pretty much it.

I don't get how you come up with cowardice, like every situation is identical.

yeah sure, if you were committed, and I mean mutually Committed with a capital C, and you either start an affair and it's ongoing, or lasted awhile, it would be cowardice and wrong and all that other stuff.

If you had a habit of falling drunk on an even semi-regular basis, using that as an excuse to screw someone. Or if you had the habit of getting in a fight, for the same reason.

This is one....*******.....mistake.

It's not about "oh, I don't want to have to go through the hassle and pain and anguish that's going to occur."

It's about realizing "this is not going to happen again. If it ever does come out, I will deal with it then (and yes cyclo, I do mean I would deal with it), but it's not necessary to put this person I love into all this pain for something if it's avaoidable.

I know you can't see that, I know it doesn't convince you.

ok, here's a real life example of mine. Sorry, there's no cheating involved.

What was it, a couple years ago now, I was at the doctors and she found something suspicious. I had a preliminary test right then, and it still looked suspicious.

I was to go back for a more conclusive test, I don't know, maybe 2 weeks later.
My husband was going through his own health and mental things at that time, so what was I going to do?
Sit there and tell him all about it, so we, and and especially him could sit around worrying about it for the next 2 weeks?

Hell no.

I figured, if it was something serious, I'd tell him if and when I knew something for sure.
Was I being a coward because I personally didn't want to have to look at him every day, looking a me, wondering if something was wrong?

Why spoil 2 weeks of his life?
I didn't particularly feel all vulnerable and needy. I know how to put things in perspective. I figured I deal with telling if it came up.

Nothing was wrong, so I never told him.
Why bother?
It wouldn't be so unimaginable he might find out now, or later what had happened, and if it comes up, I know I'll find the right way to tell him why. Simply put, the truth.

I know you're going to take this the wrong way cyclo, so I'll save the work of tying to airbrush it for you.

You're a newly married guy, and I'm sure finding out there was an indiscretion on your wife part back when you had only known and dated each other for 2 years would be simply horrible and cowardly and all that.
Of course you know more about marriage than anyone else here, since you've been at it for a few months, but believe me, there are a lot worse things that can happen, that doesn't involve infidelity.

Even for those people who don't know anything about being married since they've only been living in that state 15, 20 or more years, and would tell their spouse about some crap that happened when they were still just dating a lifetime ago, can tell you that.

Honestly, and I swear to heaven above cyclo, no sarcasm, honor bright, I'm glad one of the biggest problems you can imagine having in your life with your partner is what is being argued here.
If you can maintain that for the rest of your marriage, you will have an enchanted life.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I'm with the person I'm with, but there's just so many more horrible things that can happen, through no one's fault, than a drunken one night stand.

Then again, what could I possibly know? I'm just a sniveling coward.

Oh, but wait, Chai, it is all about possession.


I don't mean to butt in but I've been working up to speak here because of the strangeness to me. The whole whoo whoo about keeping Kyle unaware. Should she tell or not. If she has an std, she should let him know. Otherwise it's her business entirely. Before anyone rails at me as slut of the month, I was never unfaithful in 20+ years with husband. Not that I'll crucify anyone who was - depends on the mutual understandings and how they worked. I am all for working it out or getting out before the new love, but grasp that life intervenes, sometimes rather dumbly. I think the principled thing is to let the partner know about deep unhappiness, unless the partner is abusive, then bets are off.

Kyle was involved in it, I am guessing but not sure, by his own behavior, while remaining on a semi saintly pedestal. Meantime we have a primary poster all guilt ridden, and people, some anyway, agreeing with her. Like, what?

She seems young, and led by boy friend, and boy friend may be a controller or just a worried worried man.