Languages and Thought

Morning, McTag!

0 Replies

Here's a non-sequitur for you, a speciality of mine.

It is said that, when Captain Cook' ship arrived at a bay in Australia for the first time, there were aborigines fishing there in dugout canoes, and they did not see the ship. That is, they did not register its presence, by curiosity or flight. They "blanked it out", possibly since it was quite outside of what they expected to see.

Has anyone else heard that story? Does it have any relevance here? Can we "see" or understand only that which we have been programmed to expect?

0 Replies

dlowan wrote:

I am no expert here, but my undersatnding is that there is a critical period for language learning, which occurs under three ...

http://www-writing.berkeley.edu/TESL-EJ/ej14/r14.html

Quote:

The concept of a critical period is well known in nature ... In humans, on the basis of extant evidence, it seems that there is a critical period for first language acquisition; those unfortunate persons who are not exposed to any language before puberty seem unable to properly acquire the syntax of their first language later in life. (Inevitably, our knowledge in this area is sketchy and unreliable, being based solely on a very few cases, of which that of "Genie" is the most celebrated and best known.

Iain

0 Replies

I could be mistaken, but I think that the english word _slovenly_ derrives from the root word _sloth_, and is not a reference to anyone from Slovenia.

0 Replies

McTag, I've heard the Captain Cook story that you mentioned also. But I don't know how accurate it is.

0 Replies

rosborne979 wrote:

I could be mistaken, but I think that the english word _slovenly_ derrives from the root word _sloth_, and is not a reference to anyone from Slovenia.

Thought that was a joke.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=sloven
Etymology: Middle English sloveyn rascal, perhaps from Flemish sloovin woman of low character
Iain

0 Replies

McTag wrote:

It is said that, when Captain Cook' ship arrived at a bay in Australia for the first time, there were aborigines fishing there in dugout canoes, and they did not see the ship. That is, they did not register its presence, by curiosity or flight. They "blanked it out", possibly since it was quite outside of what they expected to see.

On Saturday 28th April 1770, Cook wrote: wrote:

As two of the ship's boats approached the shore all but two of some thirty Aborigines who retreated to the bushes. Descendants of those Aborigines who lived at Kurnell and witnessed Cook's landing emphatically claim that their people did not run away and hide. Beryl Beller recalls: "When they saw a big white bird sailing into the Bay, that's what was handed down to me, they saw this big white bird coming, these two Aborigines went down as a warning party to let them get the children and hide them! They stood their ground and the others were [in the bushes as] a back-up to protect the family groups. On the rock stood two warriors, and there were about thirty marines. Two against thirty!"

http://ssec.org.au/kurnell/html/body_captain_cook.html
Iain

0 Replies

rufio, I don't believe that's what I said. I said "lack of language"...

It is a huge thing in deaf education because often deaf children are not so diagnosed until they are toddlers are older. That means both that they have not had access to spoken language through auditory channels and that they have not had access to signed language because nobody knew they were deaf. Once the deafness is diagnosed, there is often a further delay until they have learned ASL and are in a language-rich environment. (The language-rich environment part often never happens.)

This lack of language in the critical language learning period has general cognitive implications. (This is why universal newborn hearing screening is so important.)

0 Replies

dduck wrote:

On Saturday 28th April 1770, Cook wrote: wrote:
As two of the ship's boats approached... "When they saw a big white bird sailing into the Bay

That's interesting. I might guess that they saw the white sails flapping in the breeze and the closest word they had to describe that was a "white bird".

I'm inclined to think that just because they called it a white bird, doesn't necessarily mean that they really thought it was a bird. Its probably just that "white bird" in their language came closer than any other word/phrase to representing what they saw.

Also, the translation of their language into ours to get "white bird" may not be accurate. It could be that their language only refers to "large white flowing in the wind", and that they just always used that reference to talk about birds before. So when they saw the sails, it fit their imagery just as well as a white bird did.

The story is a good example of language imagery.

Thanks Smile

0 Replies

Well thanks Iain, that's a more likely outcome.
Although that may have described a later episode.

I wonder where the first story came from.

sloven: sb. and a. 1450 Perhaps Anglo-French formation on Flemish sloef dirty, squalid or Dutch slof careless, negligent
Third meaning given (1771) A writer who is careless in style or composition. I thought Set would like that one.

0 Replies

A "Schluffen", btw, which is Low German and originates from same the (word) root as 'sloven', means "a woman/man, slow, dirty, habitually negligent of neathess and order.
(Another meaning in Ruhr dialect is 'football [soccer] shoe' :wink: )

0 Replies

My mistake, sozo. Have you actually encountered children who were mentally lacking because of not being exposed to language? How did you know they were?

0 Replies

Rufio - it is well documented.

0 Replies

Well documented, and I've encountered them. Was a big part of my work before I quit to be a stay-at-home mom. Am now very involved in preventive measures -- universal newborn hearing screening, and follow-ups thereof. For example, I am part of a program working with hearing families who have just found out that their child is deaf. We visit the baby (0-3yrs) in the home, expose the baby to ASL, teach the parents ASL, explain various options, etc., etc.

0 Replies

Why do Americans use the word dumb to mean stupid?

0 Replies

I, also, work with children with learning difficulties associated with "missing" the language critical period.

0 Replies

I'm glad, dlowan. I was just wondering what else sozo knew about it.

Again, sozo, are there any specific cases? Can you tell me how they are mentall deficient and how it's known?

McTag, I have no idea. Why don't you go study up on your historical linguistics - you might find out.

Dlowan - what are the difficulties?

0 Replies

McTag wrote:

Why do Americans use the word dumb to mean stupid?

bartleby.com wrote:

In ordinary spoken English, a sentence such as He is dumb will be interpreted to mean "He is stupid" rather than "He lacks the power of speech." "Lacking the power of speech" is, however, the original sense of the word, but it has been eclipsed by the meaning "stupid." For this change in meaning, it appears that the Germans are responsible. German has a similar and related word dumm that means "stupid," and over time, as a result of the waves of German immigrants to the United States, it has come to influence the meaning of English dumb. This is one of dozens of marks left by German on American English. Some words, like kindergarten, dachshund, and schnapps still have a German feel or are associated to some extent with Germany, but others, like bum, cookbook, fresh (in the meaning "impertinent"), rifle, and noodle have become so thoroughly Americanized their German origins may surprise some.

Iain

0 Replies

Iain- good answer, good find. I should have thought of the German (maybe Yiddish?) link. My Jewish friend tells me that Yiddish has more words for "stupid" or "a fool" than any other language....they evidently don't have much time for comparing snow.

I thought Rufio's tart remark directed at me was rather rude, the more so since I supported his/her correct use of the word slovenly. Rufio, lighten up a little, or go fly a kite.

0 Replies

GIGO, McTag. I'm actually not sure if your comment was meant to be an insult, or if it was just horribly off-topic. In any case, I'm not going to answer here what can easily be looked up somewhere else.

0 Replies

Languages and Thought

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know