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Please List Euphemisms for Unflattering Phenomena Related to the Female Body

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 07:28 pm
A moment of levitation, if not levity - in YSL shoes. Best posed in while pigeon toeing.

http://judypink.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/picture-6.png

Me, I think of this as near equivalent of foot binding, except that it is all voluntary on the part of the bound-ee. (Not that I've looked into foot binding history).

I get them as sculpture, or wearing for four minutes. Not for being a mobile human. I'm probably over sensitive, I stopped with four inch heels in my twenties, right after I bought two pair (two!) I couldn't wear. I also get that women's legs look good in them on occasion. But.. I don't understand the near madness for them (trying to remember the new high heel guru's name, starts with N) that propels the fashion industry. A disconnect with real life, to me. Just about tantamount to the Mulleavy sisters and their tortured clothes show, though I can understand them as artists.

Clearly most american women don't follow fashion imperatives - most of us are way too large.
The high heel sales push - I think the very devil must be involved. ; )
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 10:23 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Quote:
"Macho" is not the same thing as 'masculine' or 'traditionally male.' It's some asshole idea that men have to be jerks. It is taking masculinity to the extreme.

We discourage this because it leads to puffy chests and asshole behaviors. It's not directly comparable to traditional feminism.


Whether a behavior is "macho" or not is a subjective judgment (as is whether a behavior is asinine or not).

The term is definitely associated with traditionally masculine traits. If it is always derogatory term for traditionally masculine traits, that makes it offensive. In that "macho" would be analogous to the derogatory word for women acting like jerks in a feminine way, which is "bitchy".

If you are going to make "macho" a derogatory word, that seems to leave a whole in the English language. Is there a word for traditionally masculine traits that has positive connotations?


Yeah - 'masculine.' This is the counterpart of 'feminine.' You are correct that Macho equals bitchy. You could also use 'manly' or 'gentlemanly.'

From wikipedia:

Quote:
Machismo is prominently exhibited or excessive masculinity.[1] As an attitude, machismo ranges from a personal sense of virility to a more extreme male chauvinism.


It is not I that made Macho a derogatory word...

Cycloptichorn
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 10:27 am
I had to read through the entire thread to make sure. No one has mentioned that a man will never be entreated by an ad to help him fight off "that not-so-fresh feeling".

===
Quote:
Let me ask DrewDad (or any other man here)... when is the last time you treated yourself to something to make you feel sexy? The fact is, we aren't allowed to enjoy this sort of thing-- a limit on men, not on women.
Hmmmm. I search out, and buy for myself, good aftershaves. I used Lagerfeld for a long time and then, after trying several others, have decided on Prada. It's rich. (Hint, hint. My birthday's in April.)
Oh. btw
One thing that my ex left behind was a plastic bottle with some greenish stuff in it THAT I JUST LOVE! It's some brand of facial cleanser, I think, and it smells like peppermint. It makes my skin and face feel great. OKAY. Here's my dilemma. The label is gone. I have been, really, cruising the aisles of the drug stores hoping to match up the style of the bottle so I can get some more when I run out and I am running out.

A hot shower after a run, a good face scrub and a little bit rubbed on my arms and neck, then a towel off, a splash of Prada and I slip into my jeans feeling like the I own the world.

Joe(now, if I just wasn't invisible)Nation
Gargamel
 
  3  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 10:48 am
@Joe Nation,
I have a genuine, Elizabethan-era codpiece, purported to have once appeared at the Globe, which I lace up from time to time. Then I leap about my apartment to the Sports album by Huey Lewis and the News, feeling damn sexy.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 12:42 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
A "personal sense of virility" is certainly not a bad thing. I don't consider "virility" to be an insult whether prominently displayed or not (although I am not exactly sure how one would prominently display one's virility).

Of course the word "excessive" is subjective and carrying masculinity into "chauvenism" is clearly bad (although such lines are always subjective).

I am not insulted by the word "macho".

I would, however, be insulted if anyone ever called me "gentlemanly".





Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 01:00 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

A "personal sense of virility" is certainly not a bad thing. I don't consider "virility" to be an insult whether prominently displayed or not (although I am not exactly sure how one would prominently display one's virility).

Of course the word "excessive" is subjective and carrying masculinity into "chauvenism" is clearly bad (although such lines are always subjective).

I am not insulted by the word "macho".

I would, however, be insulted if anyone ever called me "gentlemanly".


Yes, well; certain cultures do tend to have an issue with machismo, whereas others prefer the infinitely superior qualities of a Gentleman. And when it comes to, say, your daughters future interactions with males, I'm quite sure you would agree that a Gentleman is preferable to a male who is excessively concerned with his virility.

Cycloptichorn
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 01:12 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
And when it comes to, say, your daughters future interactions with males, I'm quite sure you would agree that a Gentleman is preferable to a male who is excessively concerned with his virility.


The idea that a father should choose which man his daughter is with is quaint (if not outdated and paternalistic). I frankly don't see how this is any of my business. My daughter has a mind of her own and will be perfectly capable of choosing who she wants to be with-- I only hope that she is with someone who makes her happy.

Some women may want to be with a gentleman. That is their choice. My daughter's mother, strange as it may seem, is happy enough to stay with me.
chai2
 
  0  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 01:13 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
ebrown p wrote:

I am not insulted by the word "macho".

I would, however, be insulted if anyone ever called me "gentlemanly".


wow.

that is absolutely the most bass ackwards thing I have ever heard.

no wonder everyone thinks you're such a shithead.

"Hey, who are you calling a gentleman? I'll show you! I shall run with the bulls! I will laugh at their feeble attempts to gore me. HA HA!!"
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 01:16 pm
@chai2,
Quote:

no wonder everyone thinks you're such a shithead.


That is a little excessive, don't you think Chai (especially given the recent calls to stop name-calling and personal attacks)? I am just expressing my opinion and I don't believe I have attacked anyone personally here.



0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 01:17 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Quote:
And when it comes to, say, your daughters future interactions with males, I'm quite sure you would agree that a Gentleman is preferable to a male who is excessively concerned with his virility.


The idea that a father should choose which man his daughter is with is quaint (if not outdated and paternalistic). I frankly don't see how this is any of my business. My daughter has a mind of her own and will be perfectly capable of choosing who she wants to be with-- I only hope that she is with someone who makes her happy.


Don't be ridiculous. You are allowed to have a preference without directly making a choice for her. You also impart, consciously or not, the values and morals that she will use to choose a mate. Emphasizing Machismo over Gentlemanly behavior is a bad move and I doubt you would actually do this in real life. Once again you have sort of argued yourself into a corner.

Quote:
Some women may want to be with a gentleman. That is their choice. My daughter's mother, strange as it may seem, is happy enough to stay with me.


My guess is it's cultural; some cultures pump up the 'machismo' angle. I have seen no persistent evidence that this has lead to comparative cultural success in any fashion, and I am keenly familiar with the many problems this worldview can bring.

I repeat again: Macho is just a shorter way of writing Asshole. Guys who have true strength and virility have no need to display it whatsoever.

Cycloptichorn
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 01:38 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Ay Cyclo, you are too busy trying to win an argument to even attempt to understand what I am saying...

In your mind "macho" means "asshole". In my mind it doesn't.

The dictionary definition allows for a range of meanings-- from virility to chauvinism. I am simply saying that a display of traditionally masculine traits (i.e. virility) is not a bad thing. Chauvinism by definition is excessive... but that is not what I am advocating.

In the same way, the word "gentleman" to me conjures up a polite, rule-abiding, docile person who cares more about class and manners than living life. This is not a person that I tend to enjoy being with, and it is not the way I conduct myself.

It is not interesting to lob verbal grenades at each other over the meanings of words... and apparently I am really upsetting Chai. But let me make a sincere, and important point... really the point I am trying to make.

Humans come with lots of different personalities. There are lots of different ways to live a decent life. Undoubtedly some of the people I like, respect and enjoy being with you would find uncouth-- and perhaps I wouldn't care too much for some of your friends.

I think we agree on issues like respecting the rights of others, of not being violent or abusive. There is probably no disagreement that relationships should be mutually beneficial and consensual. But in there there is lots of room for individuality and there is a wide variety of ways to have a fulfilling relationship and live a decent life.

You can be virile without being abusive. You can be traditionally masculine and be a decent human being. You can have a mutually beneficial relationship based on traditional gender roles.

And... you can live a good life with decent friends and be part of a community without being a "gentleman". We haven't defined what a "gentleman" is, but in my mind this conjures the image of a strict adherence to social rules and norms. I am concerned with honesty and friendship and caring... but social rules don't interest me a bit-- in fact they to me (and I am only talking about my personal feeling here) they feel insincere and seem like an obstacle to real human relationships.

That is all I am trying to say.





ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 02:39 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
In your mind "macho" means "asshole". In my mind it doesn't.

The dictionary definition allows for a range of meanings-- from virility to chauvinism. I am simply saying that a display of traditionally masculine traits (i.e. virility) is not a bad thing. Chauvinism by definition is excessive... but that is not what I am advocating.


most of the definitions of macho I've been able to find include references to extreme/aggressive - nothing about traditional masculine traits - lots of Hemingway cross-references. Many of the words used in the 5 or 6 references I looked at for defining macho have been used in negative assessments of Set lately.

Perhaps you are advocating that men IRL generally try to be more like Set's perceived posting style. That'd certainly make for many lively family get-togethers.

As to traditional gender roles - I'm not conservative enough to seeing any good in suggesting that format to any young people.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Feb, 2010 02:41 pm
@ebrown p,
I understand that, but I must protest that 'macho' is definitely a term which has negative connotations in English. This isn't an opinion of mine, it's a fact.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Feb, 2010 05:27 pm
Going back to fashions for women...

this has GOT to be the stupidest idea for underwear I've ever seen.

https://www.cstringdirect.com/online_retailers.html

Why don't we women just duct tape a feminine pad to our yoni's?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Feb, 2010 06:39 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
A hot shower after a run, a good face scrub and a little bit rubbed on my arms and neck, then a towel off, a splash of Prada and I slip into my jeans feeling like the I own the world.


******* Nora Joe!!! Take it easy. It looks like you don't own your own body to me.

A long hot soak, a lie on the bed to dry off, get the togs on the maid has laid out, a stroll to the pub feeling like somebody's is ******* me over somehow, a couple of pints, a roll-up or three and then back, a bit of this and then away for 9 or 10 hours festering in the charp pit.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Feb, 2010 06:42 pm
@Gargamel,
Quote:
I have a genuine, Elizabethan-era codpiece, purported to have once appeared at the Globe, which I lace up from time to time. Then I leap about my apartment to the Sports album by Huey Lewis and the News, feeling damn sexy.


That sounds reasonable apart from the feeling damn sexy. That can be very expensive, a lot of trouble and quite often downright debilitating if you don't handle it right.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 05:26 am
Beef curtains
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 09:45 am
@spendius,
Oh, I've heard all of those euphamisms, my brotha. But I don't know if I've ever seen a pink taco that qualifies as unflattering.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 09:52 am
@Gargamel,
I don't know that I've ever seen beef curtains that qualify as unflattering.

Perhaps your Gargler has more refined aesthetic tastes than mine does or possibly is a fresh beginner.
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 10:24 am
@spendius,
Wiat, man. Aren't we saying the same thing? Why don't I dispense with idiom and speak as plainly as possible: all vaginas are created equal.

Provided, that is, they meet certain standards of hygeine.
 

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