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Please List Euphemisms for Unflattering Phenomena Related to the Female Body

 
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:04 am
@ebrown p,
I do think it's changing.

I've said "men are the new women" a few times and I'm watching with a mixture of amusement and dismay as the stuff that women have been subjected to for quite a while now is starting to make real inroads with men.

There was this recent article in the NYT for example:

For Tween Boys, Masculinity in a Spray Can
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/01/31/fashion/31smellspan-1/articleLarge.jpg

I do think it's still worse for women than for men, but it's much closer to parity now than it was even a decade ago.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:31 am
Quote:

I do think it's still worse for women than for men, but it's much closer to parity now than it was even a decade ago.


I don't know what "worse" means (or how you would measure this). Boys and men who are seen as "effeminate" have always had a very hard time (and there has always been marketing to take advantage of this.) The idea that the products being advertised now are hair gels, rather than the virility creams, strength enhancement products and anti-baldness treatments of decades ago, doesn't seem like a significant change.

Male victims of sexual abuse, particularly when the abuser is female, have always had a exceptionally hard time. Their experience goes against the social narrative. They get very little support. In this case boys have always had it much more difficult then women.

I hate the narrative that men subjecting women to negative images. This is far too simplistic a view and gives a distorted view of society.

My fear is that this narrative, by making men the subjectors and women are the subjectees, strengthens (rather than addresses) negative gender images.


DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:35 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
Male victims of sexual abuse, particularly when the abuser is female, have always had a exceptionally hard time. Their experience goes against the social narrative. They get very little support. In this case boys have always had it much more difficult then women.

I hate the narrative that men subjecting women to negative images. This is far too simplistic a view and gives a distorted view of society.

My fear is that this narrative, by making men the subjectors and women are the subjectees, strengthens (rather than addresses) negative gender images.

1. This thread isn't about sexual abuse. That's a red herring you're pulling into this discussion. If you want to discuss how male children are treated after sexual abuse, then start a separate thread.
2. You're the only person trying to make this into "men subjugating women to negative images". No one said anything about these negative images coming exclusively from men.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:37 am
@Gargamel,
Gargamel wrote:

But I think my argument is best summed up by Spanks: http://www.spanx.com/home/index.jsp Yes, many men have beer guts, but exactly none of them feel compelled to stuff them inside 21st Century corsets for weddings and cocktail parties.


Respectfully Garg, I have to disagree with your choice of website to use as an example.

In fact, from personal, almost daily experience, I can say that this product is a wonderful solution from wearing corsets and other restricting garments.

It’s not so much about beer guts, but, as my (former) friend Rockhead said “cottage cheese”.

Men may have as much cottage cheese as women, and in the same places, but they are not wearing fabrics that show the cottage cheese to great advantage.

Most men don’t go to cocktail parties and weddings wearing silky, clingy fabric. If they did, they’d be wearing spanx too.

The clothes I generally wear are not tight, but they do follow my contours. This undergarment is not restrictive. In fact, the parts that would traditionally cut off circulation, i.e. leg bands, are nice and soft.
The effect of wearing spanx is that you have a nice smooth line.

If you want to find a company that objectifies women, and convinces them to wear crazily uncomfortable undergarments, you need to look no further than Victoria’s Secret.

Seriously, do you think having your underwear ride up the crack of your ass all day is comfortable?
Or bras that have wires that dig into your sidewalls?

Everyone’s body is different, and some women will say VS bras are comfortable. Trying on their bras, most of the time they feel like you’d have to be looking down every minute or so to make sure their breasts haven’t fallen out over the top. I think some of those pouty models that appear in VS ads can’t wait to get that damn piece of itchy lace, wire, hooks and straps that dig into your shoulders off.

VS is 95% image, overpriced and uncomfortable.

Spanx is at least doing a job. They are not restrictive, more like supportive.
Gargamel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:39 am
@ebrown p,
Quote:
How is this different than Men's Health, or Maxim (magazines that have the exact same types of advice for men)? This is not to mention the amount of spam suggesting that I need to increase the size of a certain part of my body.


I could spell it out, or you could simply take a close look at both magazines. Particularly at Maxim. I've just Googled Maxim to find a link for you, and the heading for their homepage is "Hot Girls, Sexy Photos & Videos, Celebrities, Gaming." Which speaks to what really stands out to me upon comparing the publication to Glamour. They are quite similar, I agree. Not in the way you would argue, but with respect to the shape and size of the women, the absence of the smallest blemishes on their skin. Now, I really can't say to what degree the media impacts body image. I simply think everyone should be constantly mindful that there are people getting rich off a completely bullshit idea of women.

You needn't read a word of Maxim to see what I mean: http://www.maxim.com/

Quote:
There is an awful lot of pressure on men for gym memberships and funky workout machines-- not to mention "herbal supplements" that are foisted on us. Then there is the hair transplant, minoxidil thing.

I don't think women have it any worse then men when it comes to pressures about body image.

The one exception I will make is the women weight thing which leads to particularly unhealthy behavior. But to generalize this, and to minimize the equivalent pressures on men, is misleading and unwarranted.


Yes, there's money to be made off men, too. But simply by virtue that you can list maybe five men's magazines that are the equivalent of Glamour, one of, I don't know, a billion of its kind, and that men's cosmetics are relegated to half an aisle in your local drug store, whereas the market share for companies capitalizing off of the difference between the way women are depicted in Maxim and the way they really are is profoundly bigger. And I don't see how acknowledging that fact minimizes the pressure on men.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:42 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
Seriously, do you think having your underwear ride up the crack of your ass all day is comfortable?

Even manikins can't stand 'em.

http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/4558_thongdummystore.jpg
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:43 am
@Gargamel,
There is the repeating message that men stink.

Women get the same message, however, despite evidence to the contrary.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:46 am
@Gargamel,
Lots of women suffer from Fupa - Fat Upper Pussy Area

I win!

Cycloptichorn
Gargamel
 
  3  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:49 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Ha ha. I actually had that on my list; I just experienced a rare, inexplicable moment of restraint writing my original post.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:50 am
@Gargamel,
Gargamel wrote:

Ha ha. I actually had that on my list; I just experienced a rare, inexplicable moment of restraint writing my original post.


Shocked I never considered that you would restrain yourself here. So out of character.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:53 am
@Gargamel,
The argument was that there are especially negative images that "women are subjected to" (the problem with the passive voice is that it is unclear who is doing the subjecting).

While women are subjected to cosmetics and girdles based on society's expectations of what a woman should be like; men are subjected to hair plugs, emotional toughness and strength enhancements (from gyms to steroids) based on society's expectation of what a man should be like.

My point is that these pressures are equivalent in that they put pressure on individuals. Men and women are both pressured to follow these ideas, sometimes to excess. Men and women are both marketed to (for at least 100 years). The pressures are often harmful for both men and woman who don't or can't meet these ideals.

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:55 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

The argument was that there are especially negative images that "women are subjected to" (the problem with the passive voice is that it is unclear who is doing the subjecting).


It's pretty obvious, no? Other women are the ones who subject women to the bullshit they have to deal with.

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 10:55 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
My point is that these pressures are equivalent in that they put pressure on individuals.

That is lame.

If I gently nudge one person, and shove another, are the forces equivalent because they are both against individuals?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 11:01 am
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
I don't know what "worse" means (or how you would measure this).

Then why did you bring it up?

http://able2know.org/topic/142094-2#post-3915125
ebrown p wrote:
I don't think women have it any worse then men when it comes to pressures about body image.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 11:07 am
anyone who worries about what they look like, beyond being reasonably healthy and having had a shower recently, is an idiot
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 11:23 am
@ebrown p,
Quote:
(the problem with the passive voice is that it is unclear who is doing the subjecting).


That's not a "problem" with the passive voice, Ebrown. That's precisely one of the designs of the passive voice.

Any problem that exists has been with people who make silly assumptions about the structure of language. And I'm not blaming you so much as the idiots you came up with the nonsense and the other idiots, English teachers and the like, who repeat such drivel.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 11:24 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Other women are the ones who subject women to the bullshit they have to deal with.


That's not the whole truth, Cy.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 11:48 am
@JTT,
I wasn't trying to make a general grammar point... in fact I agree with you on principle.

I meant to merely suggest that in this case, the subject of the verb "subject" is important to the narrative (which is the object of my objection).
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 11:52 am
owl eyes
putty hands
cobbler's elbow
temporal affect disorder
gorgon's complaint
dream monsters
the galloping yaws

But enough about me. What was the question again?
0 Replies
 
sullyfish6
 
  2  
Reply Mon 22 Feb, 2010 01:56 pm
box pleats (lines around the face and jaw)
saddle bags (dropped butt)

You can read any of those hyper-critical fashion critics to get a list.
Blackwell did a good job on fashion faux pas.
"mardi gras meets bar mitvah" was used to describe Cher's outfit one year
0 Replies
 
 

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