Atheism

An assertion. Conclusion unjustified.



If you could provide proof of the non-existence of God we would have no choice but to become atheists.



We all know that. It revolves around belief in God. There would be no "us" otherwise and you would still not have had to sit the exam.

Get a proper cautious and critical eye. You might only think that your education, observation, thinking and feeling has provided you with that attribute. Well-you would wouldn't you?

Last night he made the point that the god of Abraham (that encompasses Judaism, Christianity and Islam - in case you didn't know that) was pro-slavery if he can't even get a fundamental wrong like that right why should we listen to any other thing he says without a cautious and critical eye?

Are you saying that Sam Harris has it wrong and god does not promote slavery?

You must realise hinge that "undeniable" was a wasted word. Proof is proof. It is undeniable logically.

Good god no (intentional blaspheme). I agree completely with Sam. My point was I don't agree with everything he says, I don't think his Mosque approach was right, kind of underlining my point that atheists aren't a monobloc controlled from above, like organised religion.

Oh ok You are correct about Sam I am sure that he gets some things wrong. He is a very smart man and it seems that the more we know that the more that we have to be wrong about, that is why I try hard not to speaak in a absolutes as you will see that even the less informed speak in absolutes about what they are wrong about!

Glee aired an episode tonight which got in to the debate. A student's father was in a coma after a heart attack. The student himself is gay and doesn't believe in god. Everyone other student wanted to pray for his father and he took offense. It became an issue with administration (church 'n' state). Eventually, everyone had their say and the atheist went to church at the request of a close friend. In the end, he stayed atheist, we assume.

It was an interesting episode, but it slightly chaffed and I haven't figured out why, yet.

Hi LittleK, maybe it was the fact that the writers had an atheist taking offence at religious people praying for his father - I don't have any problem with that particular display of support. It's good for the prayers too, as it distracts them from the notion that they are often powerless to affect much in this universe.

I just got done watching Glee. This show is incredibly popular. Each episode has a theme. Tonights theme was about religious songs and faith. Tonight's episode was a depressing expo on sad/depressed/angry atheists.

Two characters in the show declare there is no god. One, a student, declares it to a room and then the the camera moves from face to face showing the look of shock in each characters expression. Some look offended, others look concerned. The atheist is bitter and lashes out at other who "just want to help him." The other is the closest thing the show has to a villain, and she is jaded and bitter as well. When confronted, the cute redheaded counselor asks "what happened to you?" In the show both atheist characters are asked this kind of request for a testimony on why they don't believe in god. None of the religious characters are ever asked to defend their beliefs in the same way.

The young atheist boy is in trauma currently because his father is in a coma (the mother is already dead). Lots of scenes where he is looking in on the others while he cries alone and they collectively pray (and sing). Later, the atheist boy finally accepts an offer to come to church with one of the girls. There, he is comforted and embraced by the church. The one character that in the episode questions god is the character that is the airhead guy who is normally oblivious to everything around him. His loss of faith is brought about realizing he doesn't have a special line to god through the burnt grilled cheese sandwich that looks like Jesus, or "grilled Chesus" as he calls it. After making trivial prayers that come true: Get a touchdown, touch his girlfriend's boob, and become Quaterback, he feels guilt because he gets the QB spot because the other kid was injured. For the rest of the episode, he is angry and brooding. The atheist virus has taken hold of him!

In his anger he eats the grilled Chesus.

Meanwhile, the others are portrayed and thoughtful and sensitive. Oh, and the villain character asks to be prayed for in the end. Glee pulled a double Lt. Dan.

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Nope....

but Fart nailed it!

I'm slow on this -

that episode was on what?

I feel taken over by jellybots.

Could anyone explain?

I had started typing before you posted. I see I was not the only person who felt chaffed.

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It sounds like a mess. How the hell did any of that have to do with the basic theme of Glee? The Girl loves that show, but i've never seen anything but snatches of it here and there.

i think i see the problem here, y'all are watching Glee

The theme of "bitter, angry atheist" seems to be pretty common. I've been accused of it many times here. In my "real life," though, it never comes up. I don't bring up religion with anyone, and when someone brings it up with me, i politely let them know that i don't intend to discuss it with them.

I think this must be a way that religionists have of explaining something which they otherwise feel to be a threat to their own beliefs. Has anyone else run into this either online or in real life?

oh yeah, i worked with a young girl a few years back, she was a born again, the product of a nearby mega church, great kid and we had some really good conversations, she did bring up the fact that her friends seemed happier than me (i met some of them, the girls all had valley of the doll smiles and the guys looked a bit like ken dolls), one thing i liked about her was her distrust of the folks who spoke in tongues, gave me some hope

Maybe y'all can help me sort through something. Daughter M is 18 and eschewed god/religion/theism a few years ago. She's always been a deep thinker and is currently struggling with the concept of the meaning of life and the definition of a meaningful life. She's surrounded by believers, of course, who all tell her that they don't worry about such things because it's all in God's hands.

I remember struggling with the same concepts when I was a teen. I eventually let go of the worries, settled comfortably into my own definition of a meaningful life and the meaning of life, and got on with it. I remember at the time being somewhat envious of people with faith because it seemed like it would be nice to have an easy answer to the tough questions. That envy didn't last long because of all the other things that come packaged with faith traditions and the inherent irrationality of all of it.

Anyway... in my discussions with my daughter and my memories from my youth I'm wondering if this is a typical teenage struggle among atheists. Do you recall a period of stress/anxiety when you struggled to make sense of it all?

Setanta does "head in the sand" in real life as well as on here. I suppose it helps him to think everything is simple and straightforward.

(Note: This is a reply to JPB.)

My disgust with organized religion goes back to when i was five years old, so eventually discarding the belief in god was an evolutionary process, which took place when i was in my teens. I didn't suffer any anguish, and i certainly never envied anyone who had "faith"-- not faith of that type.

However, i knew a great many people in college who were troubled by this, and it seems to me that the idea that life was essentially meaningless seemed to be what bothered them. It made me think about it, and the conclusion i eventually reached was that a "lack of faith" (i.e., the rejection of unquestioning blind faith) is actually a condition of liberation. When you are not tied to notional obligations of attitude and action with regard to a putative god, you are free to make what worth you personally esteem in your life. Although many people might scoff at this, i'm basically an easy-going guy, and i am free of any impulse to despise others for their beliefs, and so free to engage them--engage them in conversation, or to engage them as friends. I've had friends in my life who were religionists, and every now and then in a conversation, they'd say something like "Let's hear what the atheist has to say about that"--and we'd all laugh. I was free to respond or just ignore it, and nobody got bent out of shape.

It also brings a sense of responsibility. You realize that the quality of your life, and the world you live in (for as much as you can affect that) are your responsibility, and you no longer have the excuse of "god works in mysterious ways," or "the Lord's will be done." Those are common escape clauses used by the faithful when they can no longer answer why a supposedly loving god would let bad things happen to innocent people. Discarding organized religion, even if one is not an atheist, is the ultimate act of taking responsibility for ones self.

i was about twelve, i was wandering in the fields near my home, a beautiful sunny day, blue skies, fluffy clouds, just kind of staring off in the distance, and i was suddenly filled with a feeling of immense emptiness, literally like i could encompass the idea of the infinite and it was empty

it was about that time i stopped asking the aliens to come get me too (i was fascinated by the early stories of abductions)

That's precisely what's happening. I don't think she's found many/any other folks struggling with the same questions and is feeling not only disoriented, but alone.



Indeed. And I think it's an individual process that eventually resolves into a purpose - but it is a struggle.