Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2020 04:32 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Right, you didn't mention atheism in the comment to which I made reference. You commented on a post about atheism with a straw man argument about ignorance.


There is absolutely NO straw man element to anything I said in my post. If there were, you would be quoting it...and arguing substantively on it.


Quote:
I am not suggesting that atheism is nothing more than a belief.

In a sense, neither am I. I have no idea of what anyone means when they say, "I am an atheist." Some mean they have a "belief" about the notion of gods existing...and some merely mean they lack the "belief" that "at least one god exists."

Quote:

I am saying that atheism concerns belief, specifically the lack or negation thereof.


I do not know what that means.

In any case, the genesis of what we are discussing began with a Hitchens' quotation Chai offered. Hitchens averred dismissiveness for claims offered without evidence.

I agreed by saying, "Which is why I dismiss the assertions "There is a GOD" and "There are no gods" with the same amount of disdain."

If you take exception to what I ACTUALLY WROTE THERE...tell me why you disagree and we can discuss it.

By the way...not only did I NOT mention "atheism" in that post...I did NOT mention "ignorance" either.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2020 12:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Right, you didn't mention atheism in the comment to which I made reference. You commented on a post about atheism with a straw man argument about ignorance.


There is absolutely NO straw man element to anything I said in my post. If there were, you would be quoting it...and arguing substantively on it.

Seeing as how the post was about atheism and your response was about ignorance, your post was a straw man argument.


Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
I am not suggesting that atheism is nothing more than a belief.

In a sense, neither am I. I have no idea of what anyone means when they say, "I am an atheist." Some mean they have a "belief" about the notion of gods existing...and some merely mean they lack the "belief" that "at least one god exists."

InfraBlue wrote:

I am saying that atheism concerns belief, specifically the lack or negation thereof.


I do not know what that means.

There's the rub. You need to know the subject before you argue about it.

Fank Apisa wrote:

In any case, the genesis of what we are discussing began with a Hitchens' quotation Chai offered. Hitchens averred dismissiveness for claims offered without evidence.

I agreed by saying, "Which is why I dismiss the assertions "There is a GOD" and "There are no gods" with the same amount of disdain."

You expressed your agnosticism concerning gods. Understood.

Frank Apisa wrote:

If you take exception to what I ACTUALLY WROTE THERE...tell me why you disagree and we can discuss it.

What I take exception to is that what you wrote isn't relevant to a thread about atheism thereby making what you wrote a straw man.

Frank Apisa wrote:

By the way...not only did I NOT mention "atheism" in that post...I did NOT mention "ignorance" either.

Right, you didn't mention atheism in that post which was a response to a post about atheism.

Right, you didn't mention ignorance, explicitly, but your post was about your agnosticism concerning gods, i.e. your ignorance about them.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2020 01:08 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Right, you didn't mention atheism in the comment to which I made reference. You commented on a post about atheism with a straw man argument about ignorance.



There is absolutely NO straw man element to anything I said in my post. If there were, you would be quoting it...and arguing substantively on it.

Seeing as how the post was about atheism and your response was about ignorance, your post was a straw man argument.


If you think it was a straw man argument, you do not understand what a straw man argument is.

I doubt you actually think it to be a straw man argument. I think you are simply stuck with that assertion on your part...and lack the personality traits necessary to withdraw the assertion.


Quote:
Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
I am not suggesting that atheism is nothing more than a belief.

In a sense, neither am I. I have no idea of what anyone means when they say, "I am an atheist." Some mean they have a "belief" about the notion of gods existing...and some merely mean they lack the "belief" that "at least one god exists."

InfraBlue wrote:

I am saying that atheism concerns belief, specifically the lack or negation thereof.


I do not know what that means.

There's the rub. You need to know the subject before you argue about it.


I know the subject backwards and forward; I have been arguing it for decades on the Internet...and for decades in print before that. Because I cannot understand what you are trying to say about it, does not mean I do not.

You are being unnecessarily nasty now. Try to stay under control.

Quote:
Fank Apisa wrote:

In any case, the genesis of what we are discussing began with a Hitchens' quotation Chai offered. Hitchens averred dismissiveness for claims offered without evidence.

I agreed by saying, "Which is why I dismiss the assertions "There is a GOD" and "There are no gods" with the same amount of disdain."

You expressed your agnosticism concerning gods. Understood.

Frank Apisa wrote:

If you take exception to what I ACTUALLY WROTE THERE...tell me why you disagree and we can discuss it.

What I take exception to is that what you wrote isn't relevant to a thread about atheism thereby making what you wrote a straw man.


So, you are saying that me writing about atheism...is NOT about atheism...and therefore a straw man?

C'mon.

Quote:
Frank Apisa wrote:

By the way...not only did I NOT mention "atheism" in that post...I did NOT mention "ignorance" either.

Right, you didn't mention atheism in that post which was a response to a post about atheism.

Right, you didn't mention ignorance, explicitly, but your post was about your agnosticism concerning gods, i.e. your ignorance about them.


The comment I made was appropriate. You made a comment about my comment that was not...and now you are floundering in an attempt to avoid acknowledging that you were wrong.

Sorry that kind of acknowledgement is so difficult for you. The need to acknowledge being wrong comes up often in Internet discussions for almost every participant. Train yourself to deal with it more maturely when it happens to you.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Jul, 2020 04:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

If you think it was a straw man argument, you do not understand what a straw man argument is.

I doubt you actually think it to be a straw man argument. I think you are simply stuck with that assertion on your part...and lack the personality traits necessary to withdraw the assertion.

If I don't actually think your response to be a straw man argument, then what do you suppose I think it to be?

Your response to a thread about atheism with assertions about agnosticism is a straw man argument.

Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

I am saying that atheism concerns belief, specifically the lack or negation thereof.

Frank Apisa wrote:
I do not know what that means.

InfraBlue wrote:
There's the rub. You need to know the subject before you argue about it.


You are being unnecessarily nasty now. Try to stay under control.

How is it nasty to point out that you do not know what the basic definition of atheism means?

Frank Apisa wrote:

So, you are saying that me writing about atheism...is NOT about atheism...and therefore a straw man?

C'mon.


but then, Frank Apisa had previously written wrote:

By the way...not only did I NOT mention "atheism" in that post...I did NOT mention "ignorance" either.


Heh, so you didn't mention atheism and didn't write about it, or you didn't mention atheism but wrote about it nonetheless. You've gotten yourself in a muddle.

Frank Apisa wrote:

The comment I made was appropriate. You made a comment about my comment that was not...and now you are floundering in an attempt to avoid acknowledging that you were wrong.

I wasn't wrong. The comment you made about agnosticism to a post about atheism wasn't appropriate; that's why it's a straw man.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Sorry that kind of acknowledgement is so difficult for you. The need to acknowledge being wrong comes up often in Internet discussions for almost every participant. Train yourself to deal with it more maturely when it happens to you.

There is no such acknowledgement to make in regard to this instance.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2020 04:14 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:


Frank Apisa wrote:

If you think it was a straw man argument, you do not understand what a straw man argument is.

I doubt you actually think it to be a straw man argument. I think you are simply stuck with that assertion on your part...and lack the personality traits necessary to withdraw the assertion.

If I don't actually think your response to be a straw man argument, then what do you suppose I think it to be?

Your response to a thread about atheism with assertions about agnosticism is a straw man argument.

Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

I am saying that atheism concerns belief, specifically the lack or negation thereof.

Frank Apisa wrote:
I do not know what that means.

InfraBlue wrote:
There's the rub. You need to know the subject before you argue about it.


You are being unnecessarily nasty now. Try to stay under control.

How is it nasty to point out that you do not know what the basic definition of atheism means?

Frank Apisa wrote:

So, you are saying that me writing about atheism...is NOT about atheism...and therefore a straw man?

C'mon.


but then, Frank Apisa had previously written wrote:

By the way...not only did I NOT mention "atheism" in that post...I did NOT mention "ignorance" either.


Heh, so you didn't mention atheism and didn't write about it, or you didn't mention atheism but wrote about it nonetheless. You've gotten yourself in a muddle.

Frank Apisa wrote:

The comment I made was appropriate. You made a comment about my comment that was not...and now you are floundering in an attempt to avoid acknowledging that you were wrong.

I wasn't wrong. The comment you made about agnosticism to a post about atheism wasn't appropriate; that's why it's a straw man.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Sorry that kind of acknowledgement is so difficult for you. The need to acknowledge being wrong comes up often in Internet discussions for almost every participant. Train yourself to deal with it more maturely when it happens to you.

There is no such acknowledgement to make in regard to this instance.


You are so wrong on this, Blue, it makes no sense to continue to discuss it with you. And since I agree so strongly with your take on current political issues in other threads, I would rather suspend than push forward.

Stay safe.

0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jul, 2020 04:26 pm
Thanks Frank, you too.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Aug, 2020 12:27 pm
https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/116141292_1764968683655961_668555622671214337_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=wQiZXFffHdgAX8kOhkZ&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=7be742d2487745a89c8dce1aa544b80c&oe=5F4E29D9
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Aug, 2020 10:24 pm
I take what I call a "Wholistic" view of God. It involves ALL views with equal weight that reveals the truth!
popeye1945
 
  0  
Reply Wed 28 Oct, 2020 01:50 am
@BillW,
As an atheist, I only disbelieve in one more God then the religiously pure.
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2020 04:18 pm
@popeye1945,
and, I believe in all of them that all "religions" believe in.....
0 Replies
 
crackedhead
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2020 02:06 am
@littlek,
So what do you call a person who believes in a "God" or a "Creator" but doesn't believe that such a "God" or "Creator" would ever demand worship of it's creation; AKA religion? Chances are religions are what "kills" God to Atheists. One read of the Bible is like reading Readers Digest. Maybe people shouldn't try speaking for "God" for once.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2020 11:27 am
@crackedhead,
The person would be a deist. Atheistically, a creator god isn't necessary, though, in regard to ideas of eternality or infiniteness. It's merely a middle man, so to speak, and the idea of creation brings about an unnecessary paradox.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Nov, 2020 11:51 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

. . . the idea of creation brings about an unnecessary paradox.

Well, not a paradox so much as a problem.
0 Replies
 
crackedhead
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 9 Nov, 2020 11:57 pm
So..everyone is saying that God is real, might be real, isn't real? Which is funny because the only thing that's actually real that deals with God is religion. Take away religion and you take away God. Take away God and think of a better God. A God that needs a religion to survive. And the cycle keeps going on and on. While our brains keep convincing us we need God and religion to keep us from slaughtering each other. Sounds more like God understands Hell better than we do...
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Nov, 2020 12:23 am
@crackedhead,
crackedhead wrote:

While our brains keep convincing us we need God and religion to keep us from slaughtering each other.


I've never needed any gods to keep me from slaughtering anyone, or even hurting them.

Former belief in gods as a child never kept me from doing whatever it was that a child does wrong.
Jasper10
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 10 Nov, 2020 02:43 am
@chai2,
Come on....that may be because believing or not believing in God doesn't MATTER anyway. Even the devil could believe a God exits. Belief in or not in God, it would appear MAY not be what we should be focusing our attention/awareness on.
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Nov, 2020 05:14 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

crackedhead wrote:

While our brains keep convincing us we need God and religion to keep us from slaughtering each other.


I've never needed any gods to keep me from slaughtering anyone, or even hurting them.

Former belief in gods as a child never kept me from doing whatever it was that a child does wrong.

But, having a belief does add comfort!
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Nov, 2020 05:30 pm
@BillW,
BillW wrote:


But, having a belief does add comfort!


Speak for yourself.
BillW
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Nov, 2020 05:39 pm
@chai2,
....and, that is the only one I can speak for!
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Nov, 2020 06:36 pm
@BillW,
Then that's what you should have said.
 

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