Atheism

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Guesses about sports, games and traffic intersections are, as Setanta so clearly put it, based on experience...and calculations. They may be right...they may be wrong...we may find out they are either one or the other...or we not.

Guesses about whether gods exist or not...or whether there is more to life than what appears to be...

...are just blind guesses, InfraBlue.

Guesses about the true nature of the REALITY of existence...are blind guesses.

Or so it seems to me. If you disagree...tell me what "beliefs" you have about the actuality of the REALITY of existence...that are not blind guesses.

If you present a reasonable, compelling argument, I am certainly willing to change my position...partly or in total if appropriate.

There are beliefs about gods and reality that are also based on experience, though, so these too, according to your experience criteria, are discounted as being blind guesses.

Whether you change your position or not is immaterial. I'm merely pointing out the inconsistency in your assertion.

There is no inconsistency in my assertion...so you cannot be pointing any out.

Of course there are "beliefs" about gods and reality that are based on experience...but every "belief" about gods and REALITY is a blind guess.

If you think not...name one that is not. We can discuss it.

So, what exactly precludes those beliefs about gods and reality that are based on experience from being discounted as blind guesses? You’re asserting that all beliefs about gods and reality are blind guesses, but you haven’t explained the reasoning behind your assertion. Without an explanation your assertions are not only inconsistent they’re incoherent.

2 Replies

@Setanta,

Because I have realized the divine nature of happiness. I could give a rats ass if you believe to be so happy, but I do.

1 Reply

@MWal,

Quote:

Because I have realized the divine nature of happiness. I could give a rats ass if you believe to be so happy, but I do.

You just proved to me you don't! Why? well, if you were really in a state of happiness, you would want to share! You show you don't want to.
So you are probably lying to yourself and hence to others.

1 Reply

@Quehoniaomath,

I do want him to be happy. Everyone deserves to be happy. But, I won't let him affect me if he's sorrowful.

1 Reply

@MWal,

if you are you say what you are he couldn't do that! affect you.So...

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

How do you know that he is not a god? Maybe that's the true nature of his reality...

Try to learn how to read, Olivier.

I do not know that he is not a god. I never said he is not a god.

Maybe that is the true nature of reality.

I never said he is not a god.

I never said he is not a god.

Learn how to read.

Or don't...and continue to entertain me.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Guesses about sports, games and traffic intersections are, as Setanta so clearly put it, based on experience...and calculations. They may be right...they may be wrong...we may find out they are either one or the other...or we not.

Guesses about whether gods exist or not...or whether there is more to life than what appears to be...

...are just blind guesses, InfraBlue.

Guesses about the true nature of the REALITY of existence...are blind guesses.

Or so it seems to me. If you disagree...tell me what "beliefs" you have about the actuality of the REALITY of existence...that are not blind guesses.

If you present a reasonable, compelling argument, I am certainly willing to change my position...partly or in total if appropriate.

There are beliefs about gods and reality that are also based on experience, though, so these too, according to your experience criteria, are discounted as being blind guesses.

Whether you change your position or not is immaterial. I'm merely pointing out the inconsistency in your assertion.

There is no inconsistency in my assertion...so you cannot be pointing any out.

Of course there are "beliefs" about gods and reality that are based on experience...but every "belief" about gods and REALITY is a blind guess.

If you think not...name one that is not. We can discuss it.

So, what exactly precludes those beliefs about gods and reality that are based on experience from being discounted as blind guesses? You’re asserting that all beliefs about gods and reality are blind guesses, but you haven’t explained the reasoning behind your assertion. Without an explanation your assertions are not only inconsistent they’re incoherent.

There is absolutely nothing inconsistent or incoherent in what I have written.

Pick out the specific thing I said that you suppose (erroneously) to be inconsistent and incoherent...and I will show you why you are wrong.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

So then you agree with me: Mano's ideas may be well informed, or not, we don't know... We CANNOT know. Therefore my response to you (for the record, it was: "errr... I don't know now, do I?") should suffice and you have not legitimate beef with Mano's teaching.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

So then you agree with me: Mano's ideas may be well informed, or not, we don't know... We CANNOT know. Therefore my response to you (for the record, it was: "errr... I don't know now, do I?") should suffice and you have not legitimate beef with Mano's teaching.

Yeah, I agree we both do not know. I agreed with that a couple of times already.

But I did not ask you if you KNEW...I asked you what you think about it...what you suppose. I've also mentioned that a couple of times. You really ought to read more carefully.

And since we seem to agree that the only way he could actually know is if he were GOD...it seems to me that you should be able to say, "Yes, I am willing to suppose he is GOD"...or, "I doubt very much he is GOD."

Mano says all the things I mentioned...and I can think of no way he could possibly KNOW any of those things unless he is GOD.

I am NOT willing to suppose Mano is GOD (and to the best of my knowledge, Mano does not assert he is GOD)...so I DO have a beef with him asserting something that is nothing more than a blind guess...without acknowledging it is a blind guess. If he is GOD...and if what he is "teaching" is divine revelation...he really ought to mention that.

1 Reply

Jeez!

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I DO have a beef with him asserting something that is nothing more than a blind guess...

But to assert that it is not more than a blind guess, is in itself a blind guess, since you admit that you have no way to know if he is a god or not.

That's my point.

And by asking me what I THINK is the case, you are just asking for my own blind guess...

You're in a bind, Frank. Either you admit that you believe Mano to be an ordinary man without any evidence for it, or you admit that maybe he is a god, well versed in these matters he is preaching... and therefore you should have no beef with him.

IOW, your position is self-contradicting.

1 Reply

@Quehoniaomath,

What did I say again?

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I DO have a beef with him asserting something that is nothing more than a blind guess...

But to assert that it is not more than a blind guess, is in itself a blind guess, since you admit that you have no way to know if he is a god or not.

That's my point.

Olivier...have I really frustrated you so much that you are going to take this tack?

Really? Have you actually allowed me that much power over you?

And you are willing to show that I do to this degree?

If you want to guess that the guy is GOD in an attempt to look less desperate and silly...you are free to do so. But guessing the guy is GOD...makes you look more desperate and more silly.

You do tend to dig your holes very deep...I will give you that.

Quote:

And by asking me what I THINK is the case, you are just asking for my own blind guess...

And there is something wrong with asking people for their guesses?????

I do it all the time...and so do many others here.

Quote:

You're in a bind, Frank.

Yeah! How do I continue a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent and not look like a bully?

But I can deal with that.

So...you actually have to resort to supposing that Mano is GOD...in a futuile attempt to make me wrong.

Oh, the humor you provide.

You should do stand-up.

Quote:

Either you admit that you believe Mano to be an ordinary man without any evidence for it, or you admit that maybe he is a god, well versed in these matters he is preaching... and therefore you should have no beef with him.

I already explained about my beef with him. No need to do it again.

But this desperation on your part is absolutely wonderful. Truly the expression "roll on the floor laughing" was created for something like this.

Oh, by the way, I do not do "believing." I sometimes guess...even blindly guess. But when I do, I call it guessing.

Quote:

IOW, your position is self-contradicting.

It is not self-conradictory. I have not said Mano knows or does not know...just that if he does know, he could only know by being GOD.

I have asked you repeatedly if you THINK he is GOD.

So far, as usual, you have avoided that question like the plague.

But the laughs you are providing while ducking the question...are more precious than jewels.

I thank you for them. Wink

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

I am pretty sure you don't know, to assert whatever it is your asserting. You can say my belief is a blind guess, but that's like Oliver said, is a blind guess in its self. And the fact is I am sensual being, i have lights that go on when good things are near, or go off when something bad is about to happen. I sense God out there, you can not touch my knowledge unless you believe first, period.

My belief is a leap for knowledge into the darkness that can only come to be learned.

1 Reply

@MWal,

MWal wrote:

I am pretty sure you don't know, to assert whatever it is your asserting.

Huh???

Quote:

You can say my belief is a blind guess, but that's like Oliver said, is a blind guess in its self.

Well, in the case of a theist...that actually is correct. (Not for an atheist.) IF there is a GOD...the GOD might reveal itself in an unambiguous way.

Are you saying you have had GOD unambiguously reveal ITSELF to you?

(My follow up question will deal with how you know you are not deluding yourself if you answer "yes.")

Quote:

And the fact is I am sensual being,

I guess I have to ask if you are a native speaker of English here.

Are you?

Quote:

i have lights that go on when good things are near, or go off when something bad is about to happen. I sense God out there, you can not touch my knowledge unless you believe first, period.

Right. You can probably convince yourself of that with Zeus also.

In other words, you are saying, "If you convince yourself that there is a GOD...and that the GOD is communicating with you...you will be convinced that GOD is communicating with you."

Do you see anything (everything) wrong with that?

Quote:

My belief is a leap for knowledge into the darkness that can only come to be learned.

Well then don't "believe" you can fly if you are viewing the Grand Canyon!

3 Replies

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Guesses about sports, games and traffic intersections are, as Setanta so clearly put it, based on experience...and calculations. They may be right...they may be wrong...we may find out they are either one or the other...or we not.

Guesses about whether gods exist or not...or whether there is more to life than what appears to be...

...are just blind guesses, InfraBlue.

Guesses about the true nature of the REALITY of existence...are blind guesses.

Or so it seems to me. If you disagree...tell me what "beliefs" you have about the actuality of the REALITY of existence...that are not blind guesses.

If you present a reasonable, compelling argument, I am certainly willing to change my position...partly or in total if appropriate.

There are beliefs about gods and reality that are also based on experience, though, so these too, according to your experience criteria, are discounted as being blind guesses.

Whether you change your position or not is immaterial. I'm merely pointing out the inconsistency in your assertion.

There is no inconsistency in my assertion...so you cannot be pointing any out.

Of course there are "beliefs" about gods and reality that are based on experience...but every "belief" about gods and REALITY is a blind guess.

If you think not...name one that is not. We can discuss it.

So, what exactly precludes those beliefs about gods and reality that are based on experience from being discounted as blind guesses? You’re asserting that all beliefs about gods and reality are blind guesses, but you haven’t explained the reasoning behind your assertion. Without an explanation your assertions are not only inconsistent they’re incoherent.

One...you ought really to stop saying that I am being inconsistent and incoherent, because I am not.

Two...if that is a question, please ask it without all the "belief" and "beleives" in it, because I do not actually understand what you are unsuccessfully attempting to ask.

Quote something I wrote...and tell me what you find offensive or inconsistentent or incoherent about it.

1 Reply

Way to troll the **** out of a thread, guys.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Way to troll the **** out of a thread, guys.

Edgar...when conversations of this sort are not happening...this thread becomes one of the most boring pieces of garbage ever. You atheists have already said everything you have to say to each other in the first weeks of the thread.

Trolling...or non-atheists being involved...started on page one. And when you atheists feel like beating the crap out of a theist...the non-atheist participation seems just fine.

There is no trolling going on. Every thread is open to everyone...to discuss whatever they want...which is pretty much the way the site has always worked.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Happiness and satisfaction is proof of Hod, you might be contempt without a God, but my satisfaction calls on a God so there is one. Peace.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Happiness and satisfaction is proof of Hod, you might be contempt without a God, but my satisfaction calls on a God so there is one, because I am satisfied. Peace.

1 Reply

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