Intrepid
 
  1  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:11 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
Those who do not believe in God do so with the knowledge that they do not actually know whether God actually exists.

In that sense, both groups are the same. I do get confused when some atheists insist on berating something in which they do not believe exists.

No they're not the same. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Trivial claims do not.

It is an extraordinary claim that there exists a supernatural personality who has created the universe, enacted its laws, occasionally suspends them at will to create what we call "miracles", answers our prayers, impregnates virgins, tortures himself to death to redeem us of our sins, and multiple other things that Christians profess belief in when they recite the Apostle's prayer each Sunday.

By contrast, the claim that there exists no such extraordinary personality is trivial by comparison. The lack of evidence for gods, Christian or not, is not symmetrically kind to both beliefs.


That being said, Thomas, why should anybody really care as long as they have the right to their own beliefs.

Does it have to be a case of one group being right and the other group being wrong?

When it comes down to it, all mankind would probably get along if they all kept their beliefs to themselves.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:12 am
@Intrepid,
Self defense, using words, is an eye for an eye? What does that mean, in this context?
Intrepid
 
  2  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:12 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

There certainly are some ranting atheist jerks. By and large, though, i believe that what atheist deplore is the policies of religionists.


I don't disagree with you. However, by and large, both atheists and religionists are guilty of this.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:15 am
@Wilso,
Wilso wrote:

Intrepid wrote:


Those who do not believe in God do so with the knowledge that they do not actually know whether God actually exists.




I do know. With absolute certainty. I've got no doubts, no second guesses. I consider theism to be a mental illness.


You do NOT know...because it is impossible to know that no gods exist.

But I get a kick out of people like you...with your silly guesses...who mock theists for their silly guesses.

Thanks for the laugh, Wilso.
http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/crying-with-laughter.gif
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  2  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:16 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

There continues to be more evidence for the big bang than any other explanation for the physical universe.

Saying "god created everything" is not evidence of anything. It's total fiction based on mythology and nothing more.


Where is your "proof" for this, CI?
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  2  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:19 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank wrote - as if he's the speaker for everybody concerning gods,
Quote:
My comment about people who assert there are no gods...stands.


It stands for what? NOTHING!


Nonsense.

My statement was:

Quote:
Anyone making an assertion that no gods exist...is making a VERY extraordinary claim...and should provide proof of the claim.


If they cannot...they should not be making the claim.

They should stick with a variation of "I am not buying into the guess that there is a GOD."


As much as Frank and I have disagreed on many things in the past, I certainly agree with his statements here. It is unfortunate that some do not have the insight that Frank has and can see this.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:21 am
@Intrepid,
Thank you, Intrepid.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  2  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:27 am
@Wilso,
Wilso wrote:

Intrepid wrote:


Those who do not believe in God do so with the knowledge that they do not actually know whether God actually exists.




I do know. With absolute certainty. I've got no doubts, no second guesses. I consider theism to be a mental illness.


You are truly gifted as you would probably be the only person on earth to have this insightful knowledge.

0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  2  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:29 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
they do not actually know whether God actually exists.


Another 'nut' in our midst. Shocked


Are you referring to Wilso or me, CI? Either way, your lack of manners and good taste does nothing to provide support for your fell atheists.
Intrepid
 
  2  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:33 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Self defense, using words, is an eye for an eye? What does that mean, in this context?


My feeble attempt at humour has, obviously, eluded you. I apologize for this. What I was kind of saying was that if you consider a need for self defense you are really using the concept of "an eye for an eye" Since this is a biblical term, you may not be familiar with it.

Have a Lone Star on me. Smile
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:42 am
Eye for an eye is the fundamentalist credo, eschewing Jesus' Turn the other cheek, Love your neighbor. They never really evolved with the New Testament. Self defense is not really retaliation, unless you make it a mission to take the deists down.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 09:41 am
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:
That being said, Thomas, why should anybody really care as long as they have the right to their own beliefs.

Because the universe is a fascinating place. Knowing the truth about it is worthwhile in its own right, and a universe with one or more creator-gods in it is radically different from one without. The difference between the two is a matter of fact, which I am interested in investigating.

Intrepid wrote:
Does it have to be a case of one group being right and the other group being wrong?

As a matter of elementary logic, yes it does. Gods either exist or they don't. The groups who believe they do and the groups who believe they don't can't both be right.

Intrepid wrote:
When it comes down to it, all mankind would probably get along if they all kept their beliefs to themselves.

I disagree. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. Whether the Christian god created the universe or not, whether he impregnated the virgin Mary or not, whether his and the virgin's son died for our sins or not, whether he ascended into heaven or not --- these are all questions of fact. "Getting along" does not even figure into it. If the cruel and vindictive god of the Old Testament actually existed, I would hate that, but that wouldn't change the fact that he does. Conversely, if no gods exist, it doesn't matter if Christians like it or not. Facts are what they are; it's not their job to help us get along.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 09:45 am
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:
When it comes down to it, all mankind would probably get along if they all kept their beliefs to themselves.

PS: From what I see here and on Facebook, you rarely take your own medicine. In practice, I have never seen you encourage Christians to keep their beliefs to themselves. It is only when atheists or agnostics state their beliefs clearly that you suggest "we all" better be quiet about them.
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 10:24 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
There continues to be more evidence for the big bang than any other explanation for the physical universe.
The concept of Big Bang has nothing to do with whether or not God exists.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 10:29 am
@Intrepid,
I thought it was quite self-evident.
Quote:

Quote:
they do not actually know whether God actually exists.


Me: Another 'nut' in our midst. Shocked


Are you referring to Wilso or me, CI? Either way, your lack of manners and good taste does nothing to provide support for your fell atheists.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 10:31 am
@Intrepid,
Setanta wrote:
There certainly are some ranting atheist jerks. By and large, though, i believe that what atheist deplore is the policies of religionists.
Intrepid wrote:
I don't disagree with you. However, by and large, both atheists and religionists are guilty of this.
Ahh. But "religionists" have an additional burden, that of defaming the very God in whom they profess belief.

What will be their claim if they discover he actually does exist?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 11:17 am
@neologist,
You wrote,
Quote:
What will be their claim if they discover he actually does exist?


Christians hope for that day, but trying to make a fictional character real is impossible - except in the movies. Superman anyone?
neologist
 
  1  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 11:34 am
@cicerone imposter,
I wrote:
What will be their claim if they discover he actually does exist?
CI wrote:
Christians hope for that day, but trying to make a fictional character real is impossible - except in the movies. Superman anyone?
Yes. They may profess to hope for that day. But what will ensue when they discover that God's standards also applied to them?
0 Replies
 
MWal
 
  1  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 11:38 am
@cicerone imposter,
How are you so sure he won't come? Can you prove it with his words? Forbidden knowledge and fallen man? We can be good.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sat 23 Aug, 2014 11:39 am
What if dung heaps were blueberry hills?
 

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