Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 11:28 am
@Frank Apisa,
A useless truth if true, a deception if not.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 11:32 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

A useless truth if true, a deception if not.


One of the most useful truths available to humankind.

But as I suggested, Olivier, some people are terrified of the truth.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 11:56 am
@Frank Apisa,
What do you do with it?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 12:21 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

What do you do with it?


Use it to come to the truth with one's self, Olivier.

If all of humanity could come to the truth of things...namely, that we do not know if there are gods or not...and if there are, we do not know what, if anything, the gods expect of humans...a lot of the problems caused by guesses in those areas could be eased, if not eliminated.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 12:33 pm
@Frank Apisa,
That's a different topic though.

It's a well established fact that metaphysical ideas cannot be tested and (in)validated. But metaphysics have little to do with reality.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 12:37 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

That's a different topic though.

It's a well established fact that metaphysical ideas cannot be tested and (in)validated. But metaphysics have little to do with reality.


If you say so.

In any case, the truth with me is that I do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence...so I cannot logically assert "there has to be a GOD" or "there cannot be gods."

Which of course leaves me with...I do not know if gods exist or not.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 12:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Ad nauseam.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 12:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Gods and reality are two different things or concepts.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 12:52 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Gods and reality are two different things or concepts.


Gods may or may not be a component of REALITY, Olivier.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 12:57 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Reality includes my kitchen, which is not, I believe, what you have in mind. You have to narrow it down. What you mean is metaphysics.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 01:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You wrote,
Quote:
Gods may or may not be a component of REALITY, Olivier.


How can you make such a claim when more than 50% of the world population believes in a god or two! That is a component of their REALITY. It's not a matter of "may or may not." Prove it's not?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 01:22 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Reality includes my kitchen, which is not, I believe, what you have in mind. You have to narrow it down. What you mean is metaphysics.



What I mean is what I said. Gods may or may not be a component of REALITY. I do not know which it is.

Do you?

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 01:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You wrote,
Quote:
Gods may or may not be a component of REALITY, Olivier.


How can you make such a claim when more than 50% of the world population believes in a god or two!


What does it matter what people guess about the REALITY, ci?

If they guess there are gods or if they guess there are no gods...

...there either are or are not gods.

Quote:

That is a component of their REALITY.


That is a component of their guess work. The REALITY is what IS.

Quote:

It's not a matter of "may or may not." Prove it's not?


It is a matter of "may or may not" be, ci.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 01:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Use it to come to the truth with one's self, Olivier.


I didn't need it to realise that I was in the **** and was expendable. Those truths were staring me in the face.

I was also aware that "far superior" persons are different and whistle cheery tunes all day long to prove it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 01:41 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You seem to know all the answers, but they are repetitious without saying anything. Since they are all guesses, what makes you think you're always right?
You also claim, "you know some things." Oh? What a surprise! Are you sure they're not guesses too!

spendius
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 01:43 pm
@spendius,
Another truth was that the only significant lessons worth learning were those requiring breaking the shins. Although I must admit that I learned a few by seeing others break their shins learning them.

A most striking example was when a young chap asked me to knock him out if I saw him talking to a woman. Apisa won't understand that because he does not think women are in any way dangerous.

Some truth that is to pass on to innocent and unwary lads.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 01:58 pm
@spendius,
I must not be taken to mean that women are dangerous in any general sense throughout the history of our species. They have been deadly in some places.

No doubt little lambs in others which would naturally quickly become selected out if you don't mind me using a technical term for "over with".

I meant dangerous within the structure of the conventional proprietaries we are enmeshed in. With fresh tentacles searching for any soft spot which is not firmly in the grasp of another tentacle. And sometimes even when it is.

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 02:08 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
What I mean is what I said. Gods may or may not be a component of REALITY. I do not know which it is. 

Do you?

I suppose it depends by which rules and procedures you determine knowledge in metaphysics...

By definition, gods are supernatural beings. They cannot be enquired and studied empirically because they are (theoretically) living in a different plane of reality. They are thus a part of metaphysics, defined as whatever escapes empirical research.

One can make a number of logical arguments against the gods' existence. Some of them I consider strong, such as Occam's razor. But it's not a "sure-fire" argument, more an indication that we are able to explain more and more without the need for the "god hypothesis".
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 02:41 pm
@Olivier5,
Some people dedicate their lives to their god. That "IS" their reality. It doesn't matter what 'we' believe about gods.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 10 May, 2014 02:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You seem to know all the answers, but they are repetitious without saying anything. Since they are all guesses, what makes you think you're always right?
You also claim, "you know some things." Oh? What a surprise! Are you sure they're not guesses too!




I'm sorry, ci...what were you asking?
 

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