Atheism

@Setanta,

Quote:

My experience is that he just makes **** up because he is so woefully ill-informed, if not actually totally uniformed.

Which doesn't even attempt to respond to Olivier's post and Setanta's experience seems to be that anybody who he disagrees with is also woefully ill-informed, if not actually totally uniformed.

Everything Setanta says is derived from his starting position. Pantsdown.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Nailed that one!

0 Replies

@Krumple,

Constantine had a brilliant political and strategic mind. He didn't need the help of God or Jesus to win a battle. He and his battle-hardened men had just blasted their way through northern Italy on their way from Gaul to Rome, as a traditional (pagan) contestant in a civil war from which he would emerge emperor.

At the last and largest battle of that war, arriving on to the walls at ponte milvio, the guy decides that all his arms, shields, banners will be painted with the chi-rho, the greek symbol for Christ. Why? He says he had a dream, or a vision... I for one says this was political, strategic. The sign was meant for the many christians in the field that day, on both sides. It was meant to sink or swell their spirit on that fateful day. Enough to tip the balance of the battle.

1 Reply

https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/1625485_639562256113990_389944894_n.jpg

0 Replies

Alice seems to be an unpleasant person.

2 Replies

@Setanta,

So true

0 Replies

Quote:

Romeo said: If your wife or child was seriously ill, wouldn't you want somebody to pray for them?
Krumple said: Praying does absolutely NOTHING. It doesn't impact reality at all period.

Ah, but what IS "reality"?
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.'' - (Albert Einstein)
"Strawberry Fields, nothing is real" (The Beatles)
"We are such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded with a sleep.." (The Tempest)
"You can be in my dream if I can be in your dream" (Bob Dylan)
"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream"- (Edgar Allen Poe)
"What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (Bible: James 4:14)
"Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?" -(Morpheus in The Matrix)

If we regard Jesus as a "Master of the Art of Dream Manipulation', it'd explain how he was able to bend this dream we call "reality" to produce what looked like "miracles" to people.
Furthermore he said WE could do it by prayer, so maybe prayer is "thought-pressure" that can affect "reality".

PS- A few years ago a guy who ran a military forum said he was having to take time off because his wife was seriously ill waiting for a heart-lung operation, so i asked him if I'd like me to get some christian groups to pray for her.
"Thanks but no thanks" he replied, "she's got people around her"
Obviously he was an atheist, but was he right to deny prayers for his wife?

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/matrix.jpg

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

If we regard Jesus as a "Master of the Art of Dream Manipulation', it'd explain how he was able to bend this dream we call "reality" to produce what looked like "miracles" to people.
Furthermore he said WE could do it by prayer, so maybe prayer is "thought-pressure" that can affect "reality".

People see what they want to see and ignore the contradictions. They do this because they DESPERATELY want it to be true so they ignore anything that doesn't fit. Later they may even exaggerate the situation. Telling the story so many times it get's more lavish and pretty soon is no where near what really happened. It is well documented that humans behave this way. They don't think they are lying because they have convinced themselves it really happened.

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

PS- A few years ago a guy who ran a military forum said he was having to take time off because his wife was seriously ill waiting for a heart-lung operation, so i asked him if I'd like me to get some christian groups to pray for her.
"Thanks but no thanks" he replied, "she's got people around her"
Obviously he was an atheist, but was he right to deny prayers for his wife?

It is not that he can really stop someone. But it IS condescending to say that you will pray for someone who doesn't care or want it. Theists rarely ever understand this because they are so blinded by their own arrogance.

Do you want to know how silly it is. Every time I see a natural disaster and some idiot on the news says they thank god that their life was spared. It is a huge **** on those who died. It essentially is saying god favored them over the other poor people who died.

But you christians like to try and turn that around and say well dying isn't so bad, it was their time to go, god called them home. Well if that is the ******* case then why pray at all for medical cures or to get better. Seems like a contradiction in terms. I mean if you get cancer or some terminal illness obviously it was meant right? So why are you petitioning to change it? Isn't heaven suppose to be a billion times better than life on earth? Yet you are groveling over spending a few more years here.

It shows the flaw in the christian mind set. They are afraid of death period. This is why they pray for cures, recoveries and for safety. It is the whole reason they convinced themselves it is true because they can't stand the thought that it isn't true. They don't like the alternative, that when you die, that is it, eternal nothingness.

0 Replies

Eternal life. There are those who are so afraid of death that they've invented heaven to protect themselves from the numbing fear. Then there are those who are so ******* narcissistic that they just can't imagine a world without themselves in it.

1 Reply

Quote:

Krumple said: Well if that is the ******* case then why pray at all for medical cures or to get better. Seems like a contradiction in terms. I mean if you get cancer or some terminal illness obviously it was meant right? So why are you petitioning to change it? Isn't heaven suppose to be a billion times better than life on earth? Yet you are groveling over spending a few more years here.

Most Christians end their prayer with something like "your will be done", in other words they've done their bit by praying, now they leave it in God's hands to do as he sees fit.
Same as when Jesus prayed in Gethsemane before his arrest and execution-
"he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
(Matt 26:39)

As we know, God didn't answer his prayer but let things go ahead because that's how it had to be.

1 Reply

Quote:

Krumple said re miracles: People see what they want to see and ignore the contradictions. They do this because they DESPERATELY want it to be true so they ignore anything that doesn't fit. Later they may even exaggerate the situation. Telling the story so many times it get's more lavish and pretty soon is no where near what really happened.

Jesus did 37 miracles, and when the first gospels were written NOBODY came forward to say "Hey that never happened!"
That's because the entire nation of Israel and the Roman army garrison saw him in action, and that's a lot of eyewitnesses.. Smile

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Most Christians end their prayer with something like "your will be done", in other words they've done their bit by praying

It is still groveling for change. Why are they praying if they are accepting what ever god decides to do? If you already think it is god's will to have things be the way they are, what's the point in praying? They OBVIOUSLY want to petition god to change something. That line is just a passive aggressive way to say well if you don't want to change things then so be it. But it is still a petition otherwise you wouldn't even be doing it.

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Jesus did 37 miracles, and when the first gospels were written NOBODY came forward to say "Hey that never happened!"
That's because the entire nation of Israel and the Roman army garrison saw him in action, and that's a lot of eyewitnesses..

Then why was it only recorded in one book? Why did no romans write about it? NOT A SINGLE ROMAN WROTE ABOUT THE MIRACLES that is the miracle.

0 Replies

Quote:

Wilso said: Eternal life. There are those who are so afraid of death that they've invented heaven to protect themselves from the numbing fear..

Death doesn't bother me, I'd be quite happy to accept that death is just a state of oblivion and nothingness.. Smile

But Jesus said there IS a life after death, so why would he lie?
So I'd be just as happy to board his cruise liner when it pulls in to take all his mates to another world.
If atheists don't want to come it's none of my business.
PS- I know atheists dislike organised religions (as I do myself), but as long as they like JESUS, they've got a good chance of being taken aboard.

Jesus said "I'll be back" (Mark 13:26)
so don't miss the boat.. Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/ship-heaven_zps34c3d7ee.jpg~original

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Death doesn't bother me, I'd be quite happy to accept that death is just a state of oblivion and nothingness..
But Jesus said there IS a life after death, so why would he lie?

Never said he was lying. He was delusional. It is because of self awareness. Since we are aware of 'self' we have a very difficult time understanding what it means to be non-existent. So we assume that either we have always existed in some form, or that we will always exist in some form. People don't like the idea that they will cease to exist one day.

Not to mention, christianity, loses all of it's power if Jesus were to say. You live this life and when you die, that it is, nothing else will happen to thee. You lose everything that was taught and there is no motivation to even accept any of it. During his time there was a lot of wars and people were constantly murdering each other over who had the bread.

The only way to get them to stop being so aggressive is to tell them that they will exist for ever and it will either be one of bliss or one of pain and torment. But first they need to be nice to each other. It is a lie to get people to play nice. It's definitely not necessary but parents do it all the time. They lie to their children because it suits their best interest with the least amount of effort.

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

So I'd be just as happy to board his cruise liner when it pulls in to take all his mates to another world.
If atheists don't want to come it's none of my business.
PS- I know atheists dislike organised religions (as I do myself), but as long as they like JESUS, they've got a good chance of being taken aboard..

I wouldn't want to exist for ever. It doesn't matter how blissful it would be. I know myself, I would get bored of it. No amount of the best music ever would keep me entertained. I would grow tired of it. There is NOTHING that would keep me entertained for eternity.

It would have to be forced upon me. I would probably get sick of everything within about 10,000 years, give or take a thousand. I just can't imagine why anyone would WANT to exist for ever. Not only does it completely devalue this existence, but it would make existing for ever a prison.

1 Reply

@Krumple,

Please stop feeding trolls.

2 Replies

@Wilso,

Wilso wrote:

Please stop feeding trolls.

Well pretty much every christian I have come across are troll like. They really don't care to reason or examine their beliefs. They want them spoon fed and then put on the ear muffs of ignorance. They want to cut and paste their nonsense and repeat the same mindless mantras over and over thinking it is in some way convincing to non-believers.

I have converted hard core christians in the past. I have emails to prove it. I might be aggressive but it works. Some might think I have a mean method but the responses I get are that it was what they needed to hear to wake them up.

If you are quiet and tip toe around peoples beliefs you in a way almost encourage them to continue believing in nonsense. I think it's better to enter with the gloves off and not pulling any punches.

It doesn't matter to me if they are trolls. Some other unsuspecting believer might happen by see what I have to say and the spark of reason might ignite. It's tough love.

1 Reply

@Wilso,

Wilso wrote:

Then there are those who are so ******* narcissistic that they just can't imagine a world without themselves in it.

A good turn of phrase, and an aspect of the religious i had not considered before.

0 Replies

Quote:

Krumple said: I wouldn't want to exist for ever. It doesn't matter how blissful it would be. I know myself, I would get bored of it.

Me too..

But we know heaven isn't a material place, it's a fantastic spiritual place of eternal peace where we're spiritual life-forms like this spirit being in Star Trek-

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/STNG-spirit_zpsd6ff5f0c.jpg~original

Call it the final step in human evolution-
"In the twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and we shall be changed" (1 Cor 15:52)
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.. flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:42-50)
"God shall wipe away every tear,there shall be no more death or pain or sorrow or crying" (Rev 21:4/5)

If atheists don't like Jesus and don't want to go there, they condemn themselves to "hell" which might simply mean floating in space as disembodied souls with nowhere to go-
"Ungodly men,wandering stars for whom the blackness of darkness is reserved forever" (Jude 1:4-19)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/freakouteyes.jpg

0 Replies

@Krumple,

Quote:

They really don't care to reason or examine their beliefs.

There are 3 replies to your posts on the last page Krumpie and you have not cared to reason or examine your beliefs in the light of them.

Declaring people to be trolls is to claim victory for your position without any further ado. Using the pejorative expression is merely an admission of being unprepared to enter the debate. It is infantile. A mantra.

Ear muffs on this thread are worn by yourself and others. Which Christians on this thread are in that position. We know which atheists are. And they cut-and-paste as well.

I'm an atheist and a hard core defender of Christianity and you won't convert me with your self-glorifying and circular tripe while ever you have a hole in your arse.

Saying "hard-core Christians" is a pointless assertion. Saying that you have e-mails to prove you have converted some implies that you are aware that evidence is required but it is not given. It is asserted.

Your posts have no value. You are trolling. All those who use Ignore or can't stop themselves saying "don't feed the trolls" are trolling.

Quote:

I think it's better to enter with the gloves off and not pulling any punches.

Read the Marquis de Sade if you want to try that. You are miles away from even finding out what the gloves off mean. Your mental constitution is far too delicate to even come near any such thing. You're using the expressions to flatter yourself and presumably to try to justify infractions of the Christian teaching on sexual morality.

Imagine yourself converting everybody. I am intending converting everybody to a realisation that it is necessary to think these things through before jumping to narcissistic conclusions.

By polarising the debate you are holding back atheism. As it stands you are going nowhere. When are you going to wake up?

1 Reply

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know