Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 11:12 am
@Frank Apisa,
How do you know that, Genius?
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 12:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
neologist wrote:
Many fail to realize the God who created this world is not currently directing its affairs.
Frank Apisa wrote:
Even more fail to realize there is no way to know there is (or was) a GOD who created this world.
Noted.
But.
What do you think, er, guess?
Does is appear to you that the loving God described by Jesus is the one directing the affairs of the world?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 12:42 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

How do you know that, Genius?



How do I know what?

That lots of people guess there is a GOD who "created" this world?

Lots of people do think there is a GOD who "created" this world.

If you do not know that...you haven't been keeping up.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 12:43 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

neologist wrote:
Many fail to realize the God who created this world is not currently directing its affairs.
Frank Apisa wrote:
Even more fail to realize there is no way to know there is (or was) a GOD who created this world.
Noted.
But.
What do you think, er, guess?
Does is appear to you that the loving God described by Jesus is the one directing the affairs of the world?


If I had to guess...I sooner guess that Zeus created this world and is directing it.

But I do not have to guess...so I won't.
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 12:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Even more fail to realize there is no way to know there is (or was) a GOD who created this world.


This is what you wrote, Bright Boy. How do you know that?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 12:51 pm
@Setanta,
Frankie boy is damn sure that he's right; he just can't prove his point one way or another.
Setanta
 
  2  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 12:56 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah, that's Frank's version of epistemology in a nutshell.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 01:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Of course there is a way to know for certain that God created the world.

If God appeared in the sky and told us that he was the creator, for example... that would do it for most of us.
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 01:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
If I had to guess...I sooner guess that Zeus created this world and is directing it.
Aside from the creating part, you have guessed well.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 01:32 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Of course there is a way to know for certain that God created the world.

If God appeared in the sky and told us that he was the creator, for example... that would do it for most of us.
According to that pesky Bible, he performed 'miracles' for the Israelites; they forgot soon after.

Johnny Cash had it right. "Everyone wants the kingdom, they just don't want God in it."
hingehead
 
  2  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 01:55 pm
@maxdancona,
Someone asked this question somewhere else Max, the big dude in the sky show wouldn't work for me because it would be reproducible with significant technology.

I think maybe a series a television interviews where he explained all those awkward questions that atheists (and others) ask like why he only sends reps to the Middle East (over a thousand years ago), did Adam have a navel and why does he allow cruelty to new borns, is it reasonable to curse a species because it ate fruit from one tree, are you malevolent or merely disinterested, and were humans the shoddiest thing you ever put together or what?

I got a million. When they're answered I'll make a call. Whatever I decide I won't be shoving down my kids throats or using it to leverage money from the poor or action from the powerful (or vice versa) for my own ends.

Thinking back to how I answered that question last time. I think I said spending a few thousand millennia in heaven without wanting to be dead might do it. But I can see a bunch of technical solutions to that too.

Maybe if he travels with me to the heat death of the universe? Then starts another one with a short phrase, and lets me help out for six days. Might just get that orange juice moon I have a hankering for.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 01:57 pm
@neologist,
That's awfully convenient. I am pretty sure every mythology ever created has miracles. Zeus did miracles. Odin did miracles. The great spirit did miracles.

There are a whole list of things that God could do to get me, Max, as an individual to believe. A giant face in the sky would do it. A million year old message written in English (or any real language) saying "made by God" would also do it.

God could send me a clear undeniable message that would get me to believe. He has failed (and the fact that his followers are so immoral doesn't help).
maxdancona
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 01:58 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
Someone asked this question somewhere else Max, the big dude in the sky show wouldn't work for me because it would be reproducible with significant technology.


Be a little creative hingehead. If you were an omnipotent being you couldn't come up with some sky show that would be irreproducible with technology?

Give me the ability to break the laws of physics at will, and I don't think I would have any trouble providing you with pretty convincing evidence of my awesomeness.

hingehead
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 02:09 pm
Right now in Australia there is a Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse being held in Australia. It's pretty appalling what was done and covered up, not just by religious organisation, but their part of the story is significant, as was their use of 'religious' power with the police to cover up allegations.

Anyway it got me to thinking about god's thinking ability. He never gave Adam & eve a second chance looking after his apples, but dang if he doesn't keep letting his minions lock orphans behind doors and abuse them. Diderot was right 'the god of men is more concerned with his apples then his children.'
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 02:14 pm
@maxdancona,
It would have to be amazing max, 'any sufficiently advanced technology appears to be magic'. I honestly struggled to come up with something that couldn't be faked, I'm not a very trusting soul.

There's breaking the laws of physics and appearing to break the laws of physics.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 02:16 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
God could send me a clear undeniable message that would get me to believe. He has failed (and the fact that his followers are so immoral doesn't help).
Gosh, I'm not as important as you are, max. I had to study hard to figure it out.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 02:20 pm
@neologist,
Your hard studying failed you! You have ignored all the errors, omissions, contradictions, and the "a loving god" part.

Did you know that third party prayers do not work? Research at both Stanford and Yale has proven that. Do you ever pray for family or friends? Useless.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 02:27 pm
Quote:
Cicero said: Do you ever pray for family or friends? Useless.

Depends on who's doing the praying, for example atheists prayers are like firing blanks..Smile
The homicidal atheist King in Hamlet tried praying but soon gave up, saying-
"My words fly up, but my thoughts remain below"
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 02:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I told max I was not as important. I did not say I was less intelligent.
I have considered all of your objections and answered them many times. I'm sorry you did not like them or understand them.

We are all subject to one authority or another. Be careful who you pick.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 9 Dec, 2013 02:34 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Even more fail to realize there is no way to know there is (or was) a GOD who created this world.


This is what you wrote, Bright Boy. How do you know that?


Setanta wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Even more fail to realize there is no way to know there is (or was) a GOD who created this world.


This is what you wrote, Bright Boy. How do you know that?


Just a second, Jabba...are you actually taking the side of the theists on this???

And incorrectly so.

There ARE more theists than there are atheists...so it stand to reason that there are more (theists) who fail to realize there is no way to know there is a GOD who created this world (which is what I said)...than there are atheists who (as Neo suggested) fail to realize the God who created this world is not currently directing its affairs.

Wake up!
 

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