Atheism

You can see just by looking ed that it's no big deal creating that. 6 days about a job like that and then needing a rest!! Sheesh!!

One thing atheists don't share with church going folk

On that theme Panz...

I agree with the Congressman. Military cadets should be forced to swear the same oath regardless of their belief in a deity.

The words "so help me God" is an idiom. It doesn't actually refer to a deity, nor should it. It has no more to do with any deity than "God Bless you" or "good bye". Most Atheists have no problem saying either. I don't believe in any deity, but it is not uncommon that I say "God Damn it" when I stub my toe. These are just expressions.

Having people bug out because they don't believe in a deity gives the phrase an import that it doesn't have. It is making an expression that has nothing to do with deity, into something with some sort of religious power.

For God's sake, sometimes I wish Atheists would just get a life.

If it's just an idiom, what's the public interest in mandating it by law?


And enshrining a putatively-meaningless phrase into law does not give it an import that it doesn't have?


You're not alone. That's pretty much what people told Martin Luther King when he made clear that anything less than full equality for Blacks had become unacceptable. Discrimination is our life, or at least part of it. Don't be telling us to get one just because we're taking a stand against discrimination from theists.

1) you're kidding, no. No, I guess you aren't kidding. Idiom?

2) "It is making an expression that has nothing to do with deity, into something with some sort of religious power."

No, it has meant that I had to listen to all that from a town council while representing a client that was unlikely to revere the prayed for icon or icon blur and may have been shuttered by all that.

I didn't argue to the city since I didn't want my clients (the plan passed) to suffer from my arguing. However, I am still angry.
This is coming up re the supreme court soon.

I think making an atheist use that idiom in the context of making a solemn oath diminishes the oath. In atheist's head they would be solemnly pledging their lives to service and then saying 'so help me Easter Bunny'.

I guess it would help a deist to empathise slightly if they imagined being a christian swearing a patriotic oath 'in the name of Allah' or being muslim and swearing in obeisance to Vishnu.

Better to spit on our hands and shake?

I'm so old that I remember the american pledge of allegiance words before the god inculsion. That was around the same time we got inculcated with other stuff in my school, Legion of Decency, yada yada.

Interesting story today on MSN.com about the sudden appearance of atheist "mega-churches", which are based on fostering a sense of community amongst atheists--"we are not alone", providing great secular music to sing along to--"Here Comes the Sun", "Lean on Me" (Southern Baptists tend toward the reactionary, but, damn, they sure sing good), hear an inspirational talk, and showcase good works and helping others. California's got at least 3. Naturally. NYC too. Haven't heard of any in the Boston area yet, but I'd try it out if they get here.

Come on Thomas! Atheists don't face racial discrimination. Atheists only get into trouble when they are in-your-face annoying, but then Christians get "discriminated" against when they are annoying.

Atheists only get "discriminated" against when they want. Someone can't look at you and tell that you are an atheist. You have to tell them.

Look at it this way. I don't believe in God (or any other deity). Yet I have never faced discrimination. If Atheism is nothing more than the lack of belief in God, that what is the difference between you and me?

Maybe this discrimination is only experienced by faithful Atheists.

yeah, osso, "under god" in the pledge passed sometime when I was in high school, and I thought it was outrageously sanctimonious. We had to recite the pledge every morning and I just never said those two words ever. It was another time, and if you protested then you had to be quiet about it. Thank the gods, those times are gone.

Oh, please not.

On the pledge, I said the words for probably three years and then ceased. I was busy enraged about other stuff, complicated time. Plus I had to get used to high heels.

Take a look at some of the polls that ask questions about atheists, max. Large majorities think atheists are untrustworthy and immoral, wouldn't vote for one, and wouldn't want their kids marrying one (of course a lot of those kids just somehow never got around to telling their parents yet....).

osso, yeah,sounds like fun, and I'm a sucker for a singalong.

Nuts, I spelled inclusion incorrectly.

well, I can see how it would be harder to say "under god" when wearing high heels, osso..

I never could carry a tune, especially the one time I was the only one showing up for choir at a funeral mass.
Those poor folks.

But the good thing is, I do like tunes.

Of course not. They face religious discrimination.

But before we continue, let me repeat my questions to you: (1) What public interest would be served by a law mandating that military cadets acknowledge the existence of god? (2) If your concern is that a meaningless phrase get blown into something way bigger than it is, how does a law that makes it mandatory not frustrate your concern?

How can someone who is not religious face religious discrimination?

Any Atheist who faces discrimination does so voluntarily. Comparing this to the real discrimination faced by African-Americans is absurd. African-Americans had no choice in the matter when they were shut out of housing, or education or the legal system.

What harm is there is mandating the military cadets "acknowledge the existence of god"? As I pointed out before, God knows that such a vague reference isn't really acknowledging anything at all.

I will point out again. I don't believe in God. I have never experienced any discrimination.

"So help me God" is just a generic statement of importance. "God bless America" is really just a generic wish for good things to happen. What is the harm in these phrases.