edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 08:55 am
The new lead maintenance at my job listens to religious talk radio and has for a few months. I have always ignored it and minded my business. Yesterday he started to make a point, but, then said, "Do you go to church?" When I told him "No" he started probing and telling me how a person can live as though he believed, just in case he was wrong when he died. Of course, if you are faking it, the man's god would know about it, assuming the man's version of deity were correct. I told him I live the best way I am capable of and there is nothing more to be done about it. Fortunately, it was time to go home. I am sure the guy has to mention this to the boss, who has not known any of this in the decade she has been here. There is no telling what she will do or say, if anything.
panzade
 
  2  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 09:30 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
"Atheism" only exists in the minds of the god-botherers.

...in a nutshell
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 09:32 am
@edgarblythe,
edgar...your post creeped me out
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 09:40 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Gould has had the experience of first hand evidence. Dawkins , even when he was teaching, benefited from second hand data that, Im sure, he never vetted .

Dawkins is kinda smarmy also. In public venues that I attended, he was more interested in cleverness than facts. He always turned questions back onto his "genocentric crap".
Course Gould and Eldredge were never too convincing with their "Punctuated Equilibrium" hypothesis of the 1980's. Even though Gould was shown some examples of where his own field data fell through, he never flinched. (BUT at least he wasn't full of himself like Dawkins)


Gould's, "Why do men have nipples?"...is one of my favorite "scientific" essays. It combines info and humor in a very unique and interesting way.
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  0  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 11:33 am
@timur,
timur wrote:
You mean the arrogance of pretending that there is a god and showing zilch evidence of such?

The evidence is not exactly 'zilch'.
The intelligence and the intelligent design in the world exist, at least in the capacity of our own intelligence. Just don't tell me that the atheists are without any mind ... and their thoughts are driven by casino processes organized by the big bang.
So far we have at least one instance of intelligence ... and intelligent design. Yes, I am not sure whether our activities on destroying the planet could be called exactly 'intelligent design', but we are changing the world ... and the universe. We send radio signals from our TV and radio shows all over the universe and they continue to travel there at the speed of light, we send probes from the radio telescope, laser beams into the deep cosmos - we are changing the universe. Our intelligence is changing the universe. Where does it come from and where does to go in the 'afterlife' (and whether we are 'the first and still the best) is another issue.
Our DNA looks very much like a 'bio-computer'. Excuse me, but the so called big bang with its casino behavior should jump over a barrier of impossibility of 10^-84 (at least) to do this. How does that happen?
spendius
 
  0  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 11:35 am
@timur,
Quote:
So, christians and other religion affiliates are not animals?


They are indeed tim but they are doing their best to deny it.

Quote:
Have you some evidence an atheist can not organize a piss-up?


The point was that there would be no breweries. A brewery needs to be organised before a piss-up in one can be.

Every alcoholic bevvy you ever drank began life in a monastic setting.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 11:38 am
@panzade,
I will remind the boss about the last religious kooks that we had and just tell her I am trying to avoid the same unhappy scenes of a few years back. But only if she seems to be upset.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 11:40 am
@Herald,
"...we are changing the universe. "

So are ants when they build colonies...or termites when they build hills.

Frankly, Herald...I have no idea if there are GODS or not, but your arguments that there are...are as bad as the arguments some atheists make that there are none.

Things are going on here. Exactly what is going on is still up for grabs...as is the question of whether or not there is some supreme intelligence at the core of "what is going on."

Best to just let the answer to the questions on this be:

I do not know...and the evidence I have to work with is too ambiguous to be used to make a meaningful guess.
0 Replies
 
timur
 
  1  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 11:48 am
I refute the idea that intelligence or intelligent design can be equated with the existence of god.

Even if there is an intelligent design, it doesn't necessarily need a god.

So, what you have provided as evidence is zilch.
timur
 
  1  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 11:55 am
Spendius wrote:
The point was that there would be no breweries. A brewery needs to be organised before a piss-up in one can be.

Every alcoholic bevvy you ever drank began life in a monastic setting.


History shows that it isn't so.

I can provide links but you are too knowledgeable to ignore that.

Your argument is intended to an audience that believes your demagogic stance.

If it wasn't false, it would be funny..

Herald
 
  1  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 01:14 pm
@timur,
Quote:
Even if there is an intelligent design, it doesn't necessarily need a god.

1. Certain biological features are too complex to be the result of natural stochastic processes, and therefore these features could be viewed as evidence of intelligent design (ID).
2. The ID is a creationist theory (notwithstanding whether with or without evolutionistic elements).
3. The 'specified complexity' (Charles Thaxton, 1986) is immanent part of the ID (and comes from the information theory) by claiming that 'messages transmitted by DNA in the cell were specified by intelligence, and must have originated with an intelligent agent.'
4. The 'irreducible complexity' (Michale Behe, 1996) is also immanent part of the ID and claims that 'it is a single system which is composed of several well-matched interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning'.
5. The natural selection cannot create irreducibly complex systems.
6. The ID must have a subject (of intelligence) - another ILF, theistic Creator God, the string theory (the so called by the physicists 'Mind of God') - in any case it is something with intelligence.
Hence this claim that 'ID doesn't necessarily need a god' (subject), is inconsistent.
timur
 
  0  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 02:05 pm
Herald wrote:
1. Certain biological features are too complex to be the result of natural stochastic processes, and therefore these features could be viewed as evidence of intelligent design (ID).
Say people of faith and little imagination. Why I should view it as too complex it's just your wishful thinking.

and wrote:
2. The ID is a creationist theory (notwithstanding whether with or without evolutionistic elements).
Does it mean that I should feel compelled to believe such theory?

and wrote:
3. The 'specified complexity' (Charles Thaxton, 1986) is immanent part of the ID (and comes from the information theory) by claiming that 'messages transmitted by DNA in the cell were specified by intelligence, and must have originated with an intelligent agent.'
That we can see some intelligence in the transmitted information, it doesn't automatically follow that it comes from a god.

and wrote:
4. The 'irreducible complexity' (Michale Behe, 1996) is also immanent part of the ID and claims that 'it is a single system which is composed of several well-matched interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning'.
The immanence of such concept is subject to caution.

and wrote:
5. The natural selection cannot create irreducibly complex systems.
It seems, however, that it does.

and wrote:
6. The ID must have a subject (of intelligence) - another ILF, theistic Creator God, the string theory (the so called by the physicists 'Mind of God') - in any case it is something with intelligence.
You don't know the true nature of said subject.

and wrote:
Hence this claim that 'ID doesn't necessarily need a god' (subject), is inconsistent.
Without compelling evidence, your assertions are baseless.
spendius
 
  0  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 02:10 pm
@timur,
Quote:
History shows that it isn't so.

I can provide links but you are too knowledgeable to ignore that.


Enlighten me then. Post the links. I am always willing to be corrected.
spendius
 
  0  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 02:15 pm
@timur,
Quote:
Say people of faith and little imagination. Why I should view it as too complex it's just your wishful thinking.


We do have that embarrassing incident at Dover when a court was told the flagella organism could be compared to a foot pump. Expert testimony it was alleged. And I presume their best shot.
0 Replies
 
timur
 
  0  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 02:24 pm
@spendius,
Beer is one of the world's oldest prepared beverages, possibly dating back to the early Neolithic or 9500 BC, when cereal was first farmed,[11] and is recorded in the written history of ancient Iraq and ancient Egypt.[12] Archaeologists speculate that beer was instrumental in the formation of civilisations

They were already monastic in the Neolithic?

The oldest, still functional, brewery in the world is believed to be the German state-owned Weihenstephan brewery in the city of Freising, Bavaria

I don't deny that good beer was and still is made in monasteries but asserting that they were the only source is a bit of a stretch.
timur
 
  0  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 02:27 pm
Spendius wrote:
We do have that embarrassing incident at Dover when a court was told the flagella organism could be compared to a foot pump. Expert testimony it was alleged. And I presume their best shot.


A white cliff to climb, wasn't it?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 02:35 pm
@timur,
It's a bit of a stretch expanding the word "brewery" to include Neolithic home brew. And I bet you have never been served with any drink resembling it.
timur
 
  1  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 02:43 pm
@spendius,
People that bet can win sometimes but usually they lose..
spendius
 
  0  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 02:50 pm
@timur,
Not answering questions properly gives atheists a bad name.

Do you agree with Kant's Categorical Imperative? Are you up for an atheist society?
timur
 
  1  
Sat 2 Nov, 2013 03:02 pm
@spendius,
Worse that the one we have already?

My motivations are such that I could effectively use the Categorical Imperative.

As for the atheist society, I have my reservations.

Are your questions answered properly?
 

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